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Where is the National Guard?

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Morlock

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I want these people killed quite frankly. What they are doing is treason and rebellion. I would fully support a joint tactical strike to wipe them out.

Well, they're mostly white and they aren't Muslims, so I won't hold my breath waiting for the lefties here to condemn your statement.

They've been exactly as peaceful as the occupy Wall Street and other occupy movements were.

And probably a lot cleaner, too. I haven't read anything about them leaving mountains of trash, running rape tents, or taking a dump on a cop car yet.

There are plenty of videos on the net of white people who open carry and are approached slowly and non-violently by cops because people in the neighborhood felt intimidated or threaten. It can get tense, but usually there is talk and no shooting. In the case of Tamir Rice, the kid was in a open carry state... and black. The cops rushed in and shot him immediately. Same case with John Crawford who was in a open carry state, black, was holding a toy gun and was shot by a cop. Heck, a NYPD cop shot an unarmed blackmen in a stairwell just because it was dark and the cop got scared. There is a bias toward black people. They are seen as violent and a menace. Same with Muslims. Its ugly, but true.

If armed black people or Muslims did what these guys are doing, the narrative wouldn't be about peaceful protestors in a wildlife refuge.

That was all down to the dispatcher, who failed to relay any of the mitigating circumstances (probably a juvenile, probably a toy gun) to the responding officers, who thought they had a perp waving a gun at innocent bystanders. He pointed it at the cops when they arrived, after repeated orders to drop the gun. Yes, he was a juvenile, but he was 5'7", not exactly a tiny lil' waif. I agree it was tragic, but it wasn't like the cops had no excuse.

As for bias, a lot of black cops shoot black people, too.

How many "armed protesters" did Occupy Wall Street have?

So, right to protest is obviated by exercising 2nd Amendment?

Awesome, let's set a precedent were any group of "armed protesters" can take over government property and threaten violence if they don't get their way. That's sure to turn out well.

There's long and broad precedent for protesters taking over gov't property (even in a threatening way) when they don't get their way. All you're objecting to is that they're exercising their 2nd Amendment rights at the same time. Or maybe their politics. Heck, the mayor of Baltimore gave a speech during the riots that said the city gov't should give the rioters "safe space" to carry out their riots.

How exactly one of the Bundy's saying they're willing to kill in this situation and being armed isn't an attempt at intimidation or a threat of violence eludes me. It's clearly an attempt at intimidation of the authorities.

I'm willing to kill 24/7/365. Much of that time, I have been armed. That's how self-defense works.

The number of black people who commit crime is rather small. Higher than white people, yes, but still small. Cops aren't force by black people to stop them when they drive cars or perform "stop and frisk" on them.

Lefties are too fond of telling everyone how big a share of the black male population will spend time in prison in their lifetimes for the rest of us to buy that one.

"The oppressed," lol. More like "the coddled."

As for stop and frisk, I find it ironic that lefties hate S&F, which is the best way to get guns out of the hands of criminals.

Look, again, I think these people are idiots. They're committing criminal trespass. They're inviting scorn by saying that they'll defend themselves. There's no heroic or anything worth emulation or adulation here. But neither is there the things that the internet is screaming about, like terrorism or threatening to kill police. The stupid is strong enough already without adding made up stupid on top of it.

Oh, I dunno. They seem to have plenty of balls. That much at least seems worth emulating.

I would chuckle if they went out that quietly though, for all their bluster and posturing.

Right. If they go out shooting, they're terrorists and must be destroyed. If they go out quietly, they're cowards.

The best phrase I've heard so far is, "Of course they are willing to die for their cause. They were promised 72 cousins in heaven."

Right. If you talk trash about Muslims, you're evil. If you talk trash about poor blacks, you're evil. If you talk trash about poor whites, you're leftist and establishment approved.
 

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Um, no. Not that simple, at all. Let's not pretend it is all in their religious beliefs, as if we have never taken any action that they'd find hate-worthy.

They hate us because we jerk them around really badly over Israel and oil, things which lead us to periodically drop bombs on them and shoot them. If you got bombs dropped on you, and your family shot, you'd be cheesed off, too, you know.

I think people on both sides here are way oversimplifying. It is definitely true we have interfered in the region and I can certainly understand why there is hostility toward the west. But this doesn't explain why groups like ISIS and other Salafi movements (like the Saudi Arabian government) are so violent toward other Muslims. That largely does stem from religion It isn't all religion, but religion is a big part of the equation here and when we project our own secular assumptions onto people in the middle east, I think we miss a lot of what is going on. Also I don't think one can ever justify the killing of innocent people (by us or by them). When armed men storm a peaceful concert event and gun people down who haven't done anything wrong, whatever justification they may think they have evaporates. You immediately lose any high ground the moment you engage in tactics that have as their aim the killing of innocent civilians.
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
It's times like these when I view my time deployed overseas (6 years), the friends I've lost, and realize "this is the type of free speech we sacrificed to protect?" Yeah, I know without free speech for everyone it becomes a worthless thing, but it still is equal parts depressing and irritating.
 

Morlock

Banned
Banned
Dude, ISIS and Al Quaeda are revolutionary groups who use, among other things, political violence as a means of establishing a theocracy in the Arab world. It is all politics. Religion is just used for rhetoric and mobilization, like communism was for the Bolsheviks and nationalism for the thirteen colonies.

That's an oversimplification. Yes, Islamic State uses religion for rhetoric and mobilization. They also happen to actually be Muslim fanatics. Yes, communism was used for rhetoric and mobilization...by communist fanatics.

It is only "all politics" insofar as both Islam and communism are politics.

Islamic State is, without a doubt, Islamic.

ETA: no offense meant to anyone who has served, but I've never understood how foreign wars protect our rights at home. If anything, they seem to serve to erode our freedoms by escalating our conflicts with foreign actors and thus justifying the ratcheting up of our high-tech police/surveillance state.
 

It's times like these when I view my time deployed overseas (6 years), the friends I've lost, and realize "this is the type of free speech we sacrificed to protect?" Yeah, I know without free speech for everyone it becomes a worthless thing, but it still is equal parts depressing and irritating.

Sacro, if you found anything I said offensive, please feel free to let me know, because I would at like to at least make sure I am able to clarify my position as much as possible if that is the case.
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
Sacro, if you found anything I said offensive, please feel free to let me know, because I would at like to at least make sure I am able to clarify my position as much as possible if that is the case.

No, not you. Posted at the same time. I was referring the posts by Morlock, which are full of flat out inaccuracies and racist drivel. Which do sort of go hand in hand, traditionally.
 

Istbor

Dances with Gnolls
Right. If they go out shooting, they're terrorists and must be destroyed. If they go out quietly, they're cowards.

No, I don't think they are terrorists or cowards. Plenty of people bluster and posture everyday without showing cowardice. Do not put words in my mouth please. There were no words expressing this nor implication of it.

They are at this point protesters, criminals at the worst.

It remains to be seen if this status changes.
 
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Morlock

Banned
Banned
"Racist" is what lefties call you when they can't be bothered to make a cogent argument.

ETA:
No, I don't think they are terrorists or cowards. Plenty of people bluster and posture everyday without showing cowardice. Do not put words in my mouth please. There was no words expressing this nor implication of it.

They are at this point protesters, criminals at the worst.

It remains to be seen if this status changes.

I stand corrected.
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
"Racist" is what lefties call you when they can't be bothered to make a cogent argument.

No, racist is what I call someone who makes racist statements, like black not paying taxes, or being worse humans than other races. You probably don't even get the irony of your posts accusing "leftists" of playing victim, while at the same time portraying yourself and other white people as the real victims.
 

Sacro, if you found anything I said offensive, please feel free to let me know, because I would at like to at least make sure I am able to clarify my position as much as possible if that is the case.

Okay. Because I realized it could have appeared I was castigating Islam in general, and I wasn't trying to do that at all. I was just saying religion is a big factor here that we shouldn't dismiss cynically as cover for purely political aims (like it is a factor when someone in the US bombs an abortion clinic).
 

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