D&D 5E What happened to the punk aesthetic in D&D?

[Shasarak]

I never ever associated "Punk" with DIY mainly because the only Punk I know is Vivian from the Young Ones who was more likely to destroy something then to DIY something.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Authenticity.

I haven't seen anyone state it like that, but I'm sure there are a lot of people for whom it is a major factor.

I was going to attempt to figure out the psychological underpinnings for why people care about authenticity, but I didn't want to wait until this post was on page 30 before adding my contribution, so I'll leave the research to whoever wants to do it.

A huge number of people in the world care about authenticity in one thing or another. Could be food (lots of people), music, clothing brand names, whatever. This is completely independent of pretty much any other factors. Quality? Nah; lots of times non-authentic food is better tasting than the real stuff. Expediency? Nope. Pure, unabashed, authenticity for the sake of authenticity.

For me, and I'm sure a lot of other people, even if they haven't identified it, that is the biggest factor for why I like my D&D products official.

 

[not-so-newguy]

I've seen a lot of people mention the AL; it's hard for me to judge, because I have no interaction with it. Is organized play really that dominant?

In my experience; AL has been great way to meet other gamers, but strictly sticking to AL rules was way too confining. I posted this some time ago:

I play at a store that has been designated as an AL store by WOTC. I started playing there over two years ago. At first, there were 2-3 tables running a campaign and every game was AL material. Nowadays, there are 3 tables going and none of them are AL content. Most of the same people have stuck around through this time. I still happily fork down $5 for use of the table, which gets saved as credit for in-store purchases. DMs are gifted $5 credit for each session by the store.

People still walk in expecting AL. Most of them stick around for awhile at least, since we’ll find them a spot at an available table. Some don't. From what I have done and witnessed at the table, we do our best to accommodate newcomers.

If the goal of AL is to give folks a place to meet and play some DnD, then they have succeeded at my store. If the goal was to play AL exclusive content and rules, then they’ve failed.

I have never attended an event or convention, but a handful of people at the store regularly do.

Read more: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...-amp-D-Adventurer-s-League-Event#ixzz4VgQ86Qt

 

[Sacrosanct]

If a lot of us want "officially supported" materials now, it's to save us from the unmitigated piles of crap we had/have to wade through..

I have no doubt you are sincere in this, but I just don't think it's accurate. For a couple of reasons.

1. If you (general you) have been complaining that everything they've done so far is awful, why in God's name should I believe you when you say you want only official stuff so you don't have to wade through the crap? Those are contradictory statements because first says that official stuff is the crap you say you want to avoid in the second.

2. Official stuff has higher production values (and thus usually has better art and layout), but that doesn't mean it's automatically better than a 3PP unless you think those two things are what contributes significantly to how good a product is. I should remind folks that Ebberron was a fan created.

 

[ProgBard]

Authenticity.

I haven't seen anyone state it like that, but I'm sure there are a lot of people for whom it is a major factor.

That's an especially interesting thing to bring up in this context, because from another angle "authenticity" is also one of the philosophical underpinnings of punk/DIY. And, IMHO, one of punk's more problematic aspects; indeed, it's one of the things that makes a certain subset of OSR folks so insufferable - the ones who tell you that if you're not rolling 3d6 in order and killing 90% of your level 1s, you're not playing "real" D&D.

 

[Olive]

How can this thread go this long without mentioning the OSR - which is largely about toolkit, self-published games?


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[Morrus]

1. If you (general you) have been complaining that everything they've done so far is awful, why in God's name should I believe you when you say you want only official stuff so you don't have to wade through the crap? Those are contradictory statements because first says that official stuff is the crap you say you want to avoid in the second.

Just because you've heard both things being said, doesn't mean that - with some notable individual exceptions - it's all the same people saying them. The two contradictory statements can therefore exist. And there's no way anybody has checked in significant numbers to see if the two groups of people are, in fact, one and the same.

 

[Morrus]

How can this thread go this long without mentioning the OSR - which is largely about toolkit, self-published games?

Because the topic at hand is D&D 5th Edition.

 

[mflayermonk]

Time. Time is the game-killer.

Also an excellent ELO album.

 

[Olive]

Because the topic at hand is D&D 5th Edition.

Sure but the answer to what happened to the punk ethos in 5e is that it exists in the OSR.

I'm a punk in the sense I go to punk gigs and listen to punk music. In D&D in generally use offical sources and good 3pp stuff (Tome of Beasts) and write my own adventures because I find them easier.


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