D&D 5E Anyone else think the Bard concept is just silly?

[TheCosmicKid]

Thanks for the link!

So, just as a drunkard is someone who drinks too much for his own good, a wizard is just too wise for his own (or anyone else's) good...
;P

Exactly. Terry Pratchett's etymology of wys-ars wasn't really that far off.

 

[Garthanos]

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?529445-Class-Inclusion-Criteria-(general-discussion)

OK a pretty impressive post, very reasonable it was perceived at one point the cleric was kept in spite of low popularity
You didnt mention mechanical role need did you? which I think was needed back when... its why the non-magic support role
gets mentioned even now for warlords I think its actually a functionality. (or maybe the non-magi part
makes it a thematic)

And was the warlord the most popular class in 4e? Do you have any sort of poll or survey for that?

I had all kinds of sources before the 4e content got taken down by WOTC
(you are right though I cannot back it up with anything directly referenceable)

or want to piss in others' cornflakes.

The Trolls that beleaguered 4th edition shows how common that motivation is in this community. It was easy to lose a lot of trust AND I could probably post better if I avoided doing so in a cranky mood.

But the motivation for an I hate those silly X post, is not exactly the same as the motive for actually not liking the thing it seems very likely to be antagonize others who like X.

 

[Ilbranteloth]

Magic in D&D is still pseudo-Vancian. This isn't 4E, where you can just re-fluff spells however you want and it doesn't matter because nothing means anything. When a bard cast Cure Wounds, they are doing so by following the rules of magic, which has a scientifically predictable effect depending on the spell slot they spend.

Regardless of what you try to re-fluff the bard into, it is and always will be the mechanical representation of Elan.

Not to me. The best bard I've seen is Chaucer in A Knight's Tale.

Before that it was always Alan-a-Dale.

Although many of my players stick with the singing bard shtick, I've always seen them as more of an orator, kind of like a modern day coach or quarterback.

It's always been one of my favorite classes, although I'd have preferred that they (along with paladins and rangers) received magic at higher levels instead of right away.

 

[merwins]

I apologize in advance if anyone has made this observation already.

If you are watching Into the Badlands, Bajie is a 5E bard. No question in my mind. He gets around, "knows stuff," has a rogue sensibility but isn't really a rogue, and relies on interpersonal activities to make things happen.

 

[Brandegoris]

Seriously? Gnomes too?

You sure DnD is your game? There is a Warhammer ttrpg, isn't there? Maybe Shadow of The Demon Lord? It's really good dark fantasy.

Do you have nothing but obnoxiously cheesy gaming friends, or something?


I'm not being facetious, I genuinely don't grok the mindset you seem to have, literally at all.

I think You Misinterpreted that comment. it isn't ME that actually has a problem with gnomes. I like gnomes. I was being sarcastic with the person that posted they also disliked gnomes.
I find gnomes just fine.
Also I don't understand you calling my players "cheesy" because they don't dig Bards?
I think we may have a different interpretation of the term Cheesy

 

[Brandegoris]

Indeed, the bard is far more prevalent in Celtic mythology and folklore, where they are the heroes or protagonists of the stories: e.g., Taliesin and Amergin. What's a wizard? The bard and druid were where it was at. In Lloyd Alexander's Welsh-inspired Chronicles of Prydain, bards were highly regarded heroes and figures, many of whom were seemingly expected to adventure.

Flewdurr Flamm was the Only Bard-like charcater I will actually ever love. Know what I liked about him ( aside from everything!).
He didn't sing and dance in combat
He just fought like a madman.
Is it possible that he was just a fighter with some skill in the harp ( and marginal skill at best?).. I think..Yes.

 

[Brandegoris]

Just like all those scholarly wizards, druids, and such. What's your point? Why are people giving such about bards when wizards are in this game? Or is this just yet another of the double-standards in favor of wizards?

I think some of us just have a hard time imaging the actual look or feel of a dude singing his a*s off in combat while playing his favorite instrument. Honestly that's all it is for me. I realize that bard is a great class in technical terms, and I think there can be good concepts if you have a skilled and good role players. My problem is that most people I play with must NOT be skilled role player's because I get a lot of elves in tights with rapiers strumming a lite with sing0casting in the middle of combat!
That's hard to imagine. Orcs attacking everyone in the party and I am supposed to imagine them attacking this Bard in melee while he sings his way to victory? Its just somewhat silly to me.
At the end of the day if someone is cool with it that great. Seriously it is. I just have a hard time with the visual. When Im running a serious game and there is a combat that is absolutely desperate and I am doing my nest to translate that desperate serious feeling to the players , then here comes F*ck*ng "Morvin the Magnificent" with his castanets of smiting and dances a jig while relating spoken word poetry....well I think you get the drift...

 

[Garthanos]

I hate clerics - I cannot picture any player wanting to play a bloody bible banger, Of course their church makes them the most influential people anywhere in a quasi-medieval world so maybe that alone is a reason for someone to want to play them. The church is more socially powerful than kings.

I hate how chain and mace wielding miracle workers utterly lack presence in legend and myth on top of that with weapon flexibility they or Paladins are seriously redundant and paladins actually have legendary basis as the shining knight. Heck they are piss poor representation of the miraculous priestly types we do have in myth which are basically cloth wearers.

I hate their ongoing influence on the GAME DESIGN, I hate how they were and largely still seem REQUIRED by the games assumptions. Then their players had to be bribed with over poweredness in some editions of the game so they were CODzilla.

This class even ruins the concept of miracles. The sheer predictability of their miracles is obnoxious it makes miracles mundane as heck... Miracles are supposed to be special right? and totally flexible but definitely not in the players control. How can you call them miracles????

OH and I do not mean a word of the above against anyone who likes the disgusting game ruining misflavored heaps of poorly concieved garbage.

all is good.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

At the end of the day if someone is cool with it that great. Seriously it is. I just have a hard time with the visual. When Im running a serious game and there is a combat that is absolutely desperate and I am doing my nest to translate that desperate serious feeling to the players , then here comes F*ck*ng "Morvin the Magnificent" with his castanets of smiting and dances a jig while relating spoken word poetry....well I think you get the drift...

I can make a farce of your serious game with any class. "Morvin the Magnificent" doesn't have to be a bard. There are paladin Morvins, wizard Morvins, and (especially) rogue Morvins. Castanets will be the last thing on your mind after Morvin Sticky-Fingers' third attempt to steal his adversaries' trousers and tie their shoelaces together.

I can also play the bard seriously. There is certainly nothing silly about the magical musicians of legend. Music is, after all, an incredibly powerful emotional force used to express feelings from religious euphoria to abject despair. Orpheus didn't prance about reciting stupid limericks. He descended into the Underworld and won back the soul of his true love by moving the Lord of the Dead to tears. Let that be your visual: a haggard, haunted man whose eyes burn with intensity standing alone in desperate defiance before the throne of a grim and mirthless god.

So consider that perhaps the problem isn't a particular class -- it's your players. Or maybe even you, for trying to take the game seriously when your players are sending you a different message about what they want.

 

[Garthanos]

I Orpheus didn't prance about reciting stupid limericks. He descended into the Underworld and won back the soul of his true love by moving the Lord of the Dead to tears. Let that be your visual: a haggard, haunted man whose eyes burn with intensity standing alone in desperate defiance before the throne of a grim and mirthless god.
.

Odin springs to mind creator of Runes (poetic spells)