D&D 5E Resting and the frikkin' Elephant in the Room

But "How often to rest" is not a 5e specific issue. Heck I saw it discussed in other systems published in the 1980s! It's an old problem.

The 5e issue is having different kinds of rests and different resources associated with these rests AND having class balance impacted by this state of affairs.

That is the issue.

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Boils down to people either being willing to take responsibility for their own game or not.
I think Mike has taken responsibility for the game he's currently custodian of. ;P

Except any blame for this rests squarely in the lap of the designers.

Not "people".
Designers are people, too. People given a difficult, thankless, task, and told to do it with their hands tied.

It's not about waving the magic wand. It's about actually trying to resolve the issue.
By waving a magic wand, yes. Magic being real in this metaphor. ;)

There are several solutions that have been proposed here and every single one of them gets waved off.

Solution 1 - Timed Adventures

Ok, I get that this one is problematic. It doesn't make sense that every adventure is on the clock. But, you can certainly have some adventure on the clock, no? So, for those adventures where it does make sense to have a countdown clock, the Elephant in the Room is no longer a problem.
No, the Elephant is still in the room, you're just pointedly ignoring it for an adventure.

Solution 2 - Extended Encounters

This one would solve a LOT of the issues. Break up those honking big single encounters into a few smaller ones.
If the setting/pacing/etc of the campaign doesn't call for a bunch of encounters, but instead for the occasional big encounter, saying 'well break them up' isn't helpful.

Solution 3 - New Mechanics

Likely this would be needed for fixed encounters. You'd need to drastically up the firepower of the critters. Probably to the point of adding Legendary to every single monster.
That's addressing half the issue - the issue of encounter difficulty falling off on shorter days. It's not the harder half of the issue to address, though. You can simply dial up encounters until their challenging to a fresh party. You can do that be re-writing monsters or adding more of them.

So, I have to ask again, what's the actual problem here.
Adapting the system to tolerate varied campaign pacing seems to be the issue. There's some clear desire for a mechanical solution, rather than a campaign-driven one (like time pressure, or magic crystals or whatever). IMHO, that's problematic because a purely mechanical solution would have to permeate the system, affecting class designs and magic item expectations, as well as CR and encounter guidelines.

I see the more tenable solution for the Empowered DM to be simply ruling whether rests can be taken, how long they take, and what benefits they give at the end, on a case-by-case basis, depending on the current campaign pacing/tone and the details of the situation....

Solution 4, make long rests meaningfully long against your campaign scale. Which has the official support the OP appears to require, in the DMG.
Useful only if your campaign has a fixed time scale. If you run only intense dungeon-crawls where a short rest can be 5 minutes and a long rest a few hours or if you run only exhaustive hexcrawls where a short rest can be a day and long rest a week. Run some mix or variation and you need to claim more flexibility.

Yes. The MAIN(primary, major, most responsible party) is the GM. I agree.

We've all played in crappy systems and had a blast.
This is an important point.

We've mostly been playing D&D for decades.

We're the ones who kept coming back. ...


But "How often to rest" is not a 5e specific issue. Heck I saw it discussed in other systems published in the 1980s! It's an old problem.
Yep, and I suppose we could say it's back because 5e is consciously seeking the feel of the classic game, a game in which the 5MWD (though I recall calling it the 15min work day) was a perennial issue.

The 5e issue is having different kinds of rests and different resources associated with these rests AND having class balance impacted by this state of affairs.
That's still the same issue, just with only two recharge mechanics (short & long rest) vs n/day, n/hr, n/turn (ye ole 10 min turn), 4-hr rest + 15 min to memorize a 1st level spell, 8 hrs rest + 2hrs 15 min to memorize a 9th level one, studying a spellbook after sleeping six hours, leaving slots open to prep into later, 'dinging' and getting all your spells back at a specific time of day, etc, etc....
 
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Can I ask what level your characters are. Currently my group just hit 4th but it's pretty common for one or more members to need a short rest not just for abilities but also for hit point recovery... I'm wondering if maybe this changes as they get into the higher levels?

We're just 5th level. 4 characters: druid, gnome battlemaster, sorcerer, warlock

But we're bound to have different experiences, right?

I think this is an example that not all groups play the same way. My table does not do the 5 minute work day: There were plenty of times when I was DMing 3e that they pushed on with half their hit points and dwindling resources knowing they were hitting the harder parts. And there weren't any time constraints or any other sort of "fix" to get them to keep moving. They simply wanted to keep moving.
 

We're just 5th level. 4 characters: druid, gnome battlemaster, sorcerer, warlock

But we're bound to have different experiences, right?

I think this is an example that not all groups play the same way. My table does not do the 5 minute work day: There were plenty of times when I was DMing 3e that they pushed on with half their hit points and dwindling resources knowing they were hitting the harder parts. And there weren't any time constraints or any other sort of "fix" to get them to keep moving. They simply wanted to keep moving.

But we're talking about short rests and spending hit dice to heal... thats not really creating the 5 mwd problem because short rests are part of the adventuring day.
 

But we're talking about short rests and spending hit dice to heal... thats not really creating the 5 mwd problem because short rests are part of the adventuring day.

I just mean that as an example of how my table plays differently than some others described on ENWorld, to illustrate my point that it's probably just the way our tables play that makes your experience with short rests is different than mine.
 

But "How often to rest" is not a 5e specific issue. Heck I saw it discussed in other systems published in the 1980s! It's an old problem.

The 5e issue is having different kinds of rests and different resources associated with these rests AND having class balance impacted by this state of affairs.

That is the issue.

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Exactly.

And to be more precise, the follow-up:

"...and that the game pretty much dumps all that balance in the lap of the adventure writer/DM, essentially giving up without trying."

The elephant in the room is that the rules busy themselves with relatively minor issues - what size your hit die is, how many spells of that level you can cast, how many feet you can move and still throw a spear... the like.

While leaving the issue of getting back all those resources entirely open to player cautiousness or lack thereof. And even throwing in spells that actively work against the world being an organic counter to resting.

To put it bluntly, the game balance hinges on the illusion that you need to hurry just the right amount. There are not even options for those wishing the game to regulate this.

The final nail in the coffin? How the game even pretends as if this *wasn't a problem*!

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"...and that the game pretty much dumps all that balance in the lap of the adventure writer/DM, essentially giving up without trying."
A particularly negative spin on DM Empowerment, yes.

The elephant in the room is that the rules busy themselves with relatively minor issues
While leaving the issue of getting back all those resources entirely open...

To put it bluntly, the game balance hinges on the illusion that you need to hurry just the right amount.
The game seems to me to leave balance very much up to the DM's option. The DM can enforce a full workday or move the spotlight around of selectively award magic items or impose balance in a variety of organic or arbitrary ways - but it's an active thing.

The final nail in the coffin? How the game even pretends as if this *wasn't a problem*!
The game /does/ provide the 6-8 encounter guideline. It's the community that's always reluctant to admit any issues with the current edition...
...or determined to find fault with it. ;)
 
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"That's just, like, your opinion man."

Certainly by now you must realize that the game doesn't work the way YOU want it to work. But your issues are not issues that impact the vast majority of players. For most, these aren't balance problems, and that for them, the balance doesn't "hinge on an illusion that you need to hurry at the just the right moment." Obviously these are issues for you, and and I'm not telling you how to play the game.

But after a few years now of you constantly complaining about how things are broken for you and having it being pointed out that these are not issues for most other people, I'd hope you would have come to the conclusion by now that:

A) It's not a game for me because there are too many things wrong that I don't like

or

B) I know I'm in the small minority here, and shouldn't realistically expect the designers to change significant parts just to cater to my issues, and therefore I need to make those adjustments at my table.

Either way, you really should stop trying to present your problems as universal issues that imply or otherwise infer the game itself is broken. You've used terms in the past like calling the developers lazy, and anyone who defends them as apologists. All because most people don't agree with your position that your problems are everyone's problems.


So you have those choices. Otherwise....do you know what the definition of insanity is?
 



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