D&D 4E [4e] A slim(er) 4e experience through class and options cutting

[MoutonRustique]

I'm trying to get together a slimmer version of the game where I'll be cutting down drastically on available options - similar to what Essentials proposed, but, you know, that I won't dislike so much (most of it anyway).

In that regard, I've tried to list the different kinds of character archetypes and I'm asking you guys if you think I've missed some, or some are redundant, etc. I'll follow up tomorrow with which class(es) should be used for which archetypes.

1. Bad A Warrior
2. Nature Warrior
3. Sacred Warrior
4. Light and Agile Warrior
5. Eldritch Warrior
6. Sneaky Bastard
7. Battlefield Commander
8. Chessmaster Caster
9. Blaster Caster
10. Healer Caster
11. Nature Caster
12. Ranged Weapon User
13. Techno User

Unarmed warrior is intentionally left out - it doesn't work with what I have in mind. Same with the psionic classes (although, I'm wondering if, when refluffed as magic, they could work as a replacement for something - I don't know them at all...)

The setting-feel is inspired by the first adventure from the Witchfire Trilogy. The focus is much more on the mystical, bayou, industrial and "dark", than on big "mechs" and tanks running around everywhere with the OP warcasters - so, you know, NOT the Iron Kingdoms.

Plus, this is not something that's going all the way to Epic tier. I've got my eyes firmly on Heroic - with possible inclusion of Paragon, but we'll have to see...

[sblock="Class choices"]

1. Bad A Warrior (Fighter, Slayer)
2. Nature Warrior (Barbarian, Warden?)
3. Sacred Warrior (Paladin, Paladin|Cleric, Avenger)
4. Light and Agile Warrior (Rogue, Avenger, Bard)
5. Eldritch Warrior (Swordmage, Hexblade, Bard)
6. Sneaky Bastard (Rogue, Avenger)
7. Battlefield Commander (Warlord!, Bard)
8. Chessmaster Caster (Wizard, Invoker)
9. Blaster Caster (Wizard?, Invoker? Sorcerer?)
10. Healer Caster (Cleric*)
11. Nature Caster (Shaman, Druid?)
12. Ranged Weapon User (Rogue, Warlord, Ranger?)
13. Techno User

? are choices I'm not sure about - either because I'm not sure they're really all that needed, or because I'm not sure they fit
* low-armour laser cleric, probably in the form of Cleric|Invoker or something

Classes I'm most leery of adding/keeping are : Sorcerer, Ranger and Druid. I'm not sure they're needed...

I love the [bladespells], but the Bladesigner is just so... blah. Plus I highly dislike the [blade song] [wizard encounter as daily] thing, so yeah, makes it hard to like the whole thing. But the [bladespells]![/sblock]

 

[Garthanos]

Personally I though the blade singer was a piss poor Swordmage (would have preferred a striker subclass there of).

 

[Jhaelen]

I really have trouble figuring out what you consider an 'Archetype'. I don't think there are as many, e.g. all those different types of warriors could easily be condensed into one or two archetypes, imho. Almost all of the psionic classes duplicate already existing 'archetypes', imho, e.g. Psion is just a kind of 'Chessmaster Caster', etc.

Given your current list you may actually be better served by simply picking one or two sources you'd like to have in your game and associate them with the roles you consider important. That's probably easier than trying to figure out what the important archetypes are.

Regarding your 'Techno User': Isn't that just what the Artificer class is?

 

[Tony Vargas]

If you really, really want to slim it down, you could take it all the way down to one class & one role per Source. So the Fighter is the only Martial Class and the only Defender. The Cleric is the only Divine Class and the only Leader. The Wizard is the only Arcane Class and the only Controller. And, the Barbarian is the only Primal Class and the only Striker.

OR, you could trim sources to match your setting. Unfortunately, I know nothing about the trilogy you're emulating.

 

[MoutonRustique]

The ultimate goal is to offer a "kinda" wide array of fairly narrow choices. A way of looking at it could be "builds as a classes" - again, much like Essentials proposed. The problem with just going with Essentials, is that I don't like most of the propositions they put forward (the basic ideas, yeah, some, but the implementation, not so much...)

But thank you, just having a sort of sounding board really helped. Thanks!

"archetype" was the best word I could find for : The way a character presents itself and plays.

But I think you guys are right, I can trim it down some more - especially if I build (use) a few dedicated themes to differentiate between a few of the Warrior types for instance. Shouldn't be too hard to find or create a theme that grants "Nature" to a regular warrior, or "Sacred". It's an avenue worth exploring in any case.

And yea, "Techno-guy" is an artificer.

 

[Garthanos]

I try to guide flavor or if necessary restrict flavor instead of restricting the mechanics used to get there... I have made what I consider a very valid Dark Sun character using a hybrid of 2 divine classes for instance.

I have however enjoyed recently building 4e versions of 1e classes using core classes (the Paladin as a fighter with a boon or as a Fighter/Cleric hybrid) and so on.

 

[Tony Vargas]

The ultimate goal is to offer a "kinda" wide array of fairly narrow choices. A way of looking at it could be "builds as a classes" -

Oh. I completely misread that. So you'd want as many or more classes, just with fewer more focused choices within each.

 

[MoutonRustique]

Oh. I completely misread that. So you'd want as many or more classes, just with fewer more focused choices within each.

Forum at my post! TWICE! (cry! a lot!)

tl;dr - yes. I want to re-package 4e to what I really want from it for my aims.

I give up on the rest of this post. (trust me, it was awesome)

 

[Tony Vargas]

XP for want of a sympathetic pat on the back button. ;(

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Well, here's a thought for 'holy warrior', though it probably requires a little work...

Saw the STR half off of the Paladin and the STR half off of the cleric, and make that one class, call it 'paladin', and glue the other two halves together and call it 'cleric'. Much clearer, covers the same ground, etc. Give the paladin the version of mark from Divine Power and ditch the one from PHB1. The cleric will be pretty much pure laser, though with a lot more CHA options and the ability to wade into battle a bit more, depending on which powers you focus on.

I'd stick with the version of the wizard from AP, although even that one has a bit too much party-friendly junk.

You COULD live without the ranger, rogues can do a decent sniper build, though rangers are fairly unique and cool!

You could use the Berserker as your nature warrior, kind of a nice little class there.

For that matter, I like HotFW a lot, go with the Witch as the controllery caster. You can then use the Sorcerer as the blaster caster, and ditch the straight up wizard.

You're missing a 'nature caster' here, so why not use the Shaman? Its a quite cool class, and you can even refluff the SC as most anything.

A hexblade or an assassin would make a decent eldritch warrior. Avenger can also fill this role pretty nicely.