What is your way for doing Initiative?

  • Thread starter WhosDaDungeonMaster
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WhosDaDungeonMaster

Guest
Same here.

We use straight d6 for each action (thus if you get two attacks in a round you roll a d6 for each), rerolled each round. Your system for 5e sounds kinda similar to ours for 1e.

How do you handle ties? Do you let them all resolve at once or do you somehow force a sequence?

On a different tack: having effects that last "until your next turn" isn't a problem with re-rolled d20 init in 5e; all you need to do is change it to say the effect lasts "until the same init. next round" and then make whoever caused the effect responsible for tracking its duration. So if I stun you on 15 this round it's on me to tell you it wears off when 15 comes up next round, regardless of what my init. next round turns out to be.

Simple, huh? :)

We handle ties initially with natural rolls beat augmented. So, if one player has a +1 and rolls a 3, total is 4. If another has no modifier and rolls a 4, he goes first by virtue of it being an unaugmented roll. If both were augmented, the one with the lower mod goes first as his die roll was higher. If the modifiers to the rolls are also ties, such as two players both with +1 rolling 3's, then I can refer to the ability score (Dex, Int, or Wis) that created the modifier. Sometimes, for example, the one character might have a Dex 16 and the other Wis 17, both would be +1 to their rolls, but the 17 is better so acts first. If the ability scores are ALSO ties, the actions so simply simultaneous.

Most often, comparing the natural roll against augmented is enough, rarely do I have to go much further but sometimes we do. You can break it down as minute as you want, really.
 

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Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
I often play crowd control casters, it's a niche I enjoy. If you tell me that you have an initiative system where I can use up a daily spell slot, do BETTER on initiative next round so that I go before the foe, and have my spell which lasted until my next round do nothing, I have a problem. It means I wasted both my slot and my action because I did better on a roll (or however).'

D&D 5e durations, especially "until the start of your next turn", are critically reliant on the initiative system. For playing 5e I would insist on an initiative system that guaranteed durations. Be it on my character, and ally, or a foe.

Another system where they aren't as baked in (and not as many 1 turn duration) I'm up for other things.
 
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WhosDaDungeonMaster

Guest
But don't most spells that target others end on their turn, not yours?
 


CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
I know the presented system is to roll Initiative as a Dexterity check and then go in the established order every round.
...
What do you use?
We use Intelligence instead of Dexterity, to make it more about being alert and quick-thinking. (Besides. Dexterity feels over-used in 5th Edition.) Other than that, we do it by-the-book.
 

5ekyu

Hero
But don't most spells that target others end on their turn, not yours?
Lets take a look... Spells only
Shield...
Absorb Elements
Chill Touch HP block
Ray of Frost slow down
Shocking Grasp reaction block
Booming Blades energy field
Investiture of Ice
Heat Matal
Dust Devil

Plus lotsa fearures that arent spells.

But of course, you looked at this and decided these were ok to sonetimes not deliver on their typical effects before house ruling right? So you already knew these didnt matter.
 

Obviously, whatever you say is happening at your table with brainiac is nothing I can speak to - but if I were told by my players that my encounters were boring and predictable, the last place I would go for solutions would be to change " when we roll stuff."

I really would not think that random order of events makes a significant change in the overall statistics of the outcomes... but let's say it does.

What you are saying then is that the initiative rolls round after round are a bigger impact in the outcomes than the characters and the player's choices were?

If that were the case in my games, I would see that as a flaw and a problem - not a feature to be lauded. I want the characters and the players choices yo be the biggest most meaningful factor, not the initiative dice.
When you drive to work in the morning, you make a lot of decisions right? Where to walk, what lane to drive in, where to cross the road, how fast to drive, where to park... right? You are in control of much of it right? But I bet you can predict pretty well exactly what time you will get to work every day. Especially after 30 years of going to work. Even if you change jobs, or get a new car, or a new bus-line or subway opens you still can predict pretty well when you will get to work right?

The things you have no control over, an accident or break down or other people have a bigger impact of when you get to work than the decisions you make. It's not because you don't have control. Its not because the choices you make are not meaningful; it is simply because of all the choices you make are optimized to get you to work. Sure, you could make a different choice, and take longer to get to work, but why would you do that?

I've been playing D&D and other tactical and strategic games with this player for about 40 years now. There is no reason he is not going to make a combat choice that is not optimized (unless he chooses to role-play a character that would do otherwise). Most of the rest of the players are not going to make a choice that is not optimized (unless it is in-character). As the DM I'm going to play the NPCs/Adversaries in a meaningful way. Usually that means close to optimized, but not always.

Then think about a combat, you really can break it down to X vs Y and various types of combatants; melee, ranged, tank, control, buff, etc (whatever names you want to give them). Then you have locations like open area or ones with cover and traps and hazards. All of those are just factors that can be accounted for in an optimized solution.

If your brain works in a way, and you have played ten or hundred of thousands of scenarios, you can "see" the likely outcome before combat begins.

I know, I know, you are going to tell me to mix it up. And I do. But, another one or two predictable variables like terrain, etc are just more factors. Even re-rolling init is just another factor. More factors, more complexity.

The biggest things that "cloud" the predictability is randomness that does not average out over the length of a combat and unknown enemies. Re-rolling initiative is something that yields highly variable results given the short number of data points in a combat (i.e. half a dozen rounds). Even the PC with advantage and +7 initiative doesn't always go first or even in the top half.

To reiterate, it is the players choices that have the biggest impact on success and failure in combat. But it's because they have to account for the randomness and chaos of combat. Not because the players are not experienced enough to make optimal choices. The players get to make the choice, do we play it safe and heal the paladin, or do we take a chance that next round I might go last and not be able to heal him before the BBEG gets a lucky hit if I fail to paralyze him this round?
 

Everyone rolls as normal. Then I as the DM call out “anyone higher than X (where X=monsters initiative) can go.” Then i go on the monsters turn. Then I say everyone else can go.

I know that technically it could have issues about how things end on various turns, but it’s never been a noticeable problem. And it’s much faster. And it allows the players to have a bit more freedom and creativity, which they like.

This is genius. I use something very similar where I call out ranges of numbers (+20, 16-20, 11-15, 6-10, 1-5) and any character that has an initiative in the range called out gets to have their turn in whatever order. Bad guys get to go before the characters of the specific range.

But Sacrosancts method is far superior! Quick and easy way instead of constant note taking on who goes when.
 

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WhosDaDungeonMaster

Guest
But of course, you looked at this and decided these were ok to sonetimes not deliver on their typical effects before house ruling right? So you already knew these didnt matter.

Jeez, Mr. Snarky, did you read the post I was responding to? It was about crowd control spells. Spells like Absorb Elements don't affect others and are hardly crowd control. And spells such as Dust Devil affect creatures on the end of their turns. Even the increase obscuring cloud effect is at the start of your turn. Having re-rolled initiative rarely makes much of a difference. Other "crowd control" spells, such as Web, are also on the targeted creatures' turns, not yours. Many other spells you cite have secondary or tertiary effects that might not work as well, but that is hardly game breaking.

Besides, you have no idea how my house-rule works with concentration/durations spells, so stop acting like a know-it-all. All you are doing is devaluing any contribution you might otherwise have to offer.
 

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WhosDaDungeonMaster

Guest
But Sacrosancts method is far superior! Quick and easy way instead of constant note taking on who goes when.

I agree. It's a good idea, but I still want the players to go in the order they rolled, so I probably won't apply it. I might give it a try, just to see how it plays out... we'll see.
 

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