D&D General Worlds of Design: A Question of Balance

Some people think that every character class must be equally balanced with every other class, but why is that necessary? Are they competing with the other players in a co-operative game?

Some people think that every character class must be equally balanced with every other class, but why is that necessary? Are they competing with the other players in a co-operative game?
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The Destination or the Journey?

When approaching a discussion of class balance, it's worth asking the question: is an RPG session a destination or a journey? Or to put it another way, is an RPG session "mental gymnastics" or an "adventure"? I think the latter in both cases. Consequently, shouldn't character classes be about different ways to succeed, not about "power" (or whatever it is that has to be "equal" between each character)?

The concept of asymmetry--different starting capabilities and assets on each side--is very important in some kinds of games, like historical strategy games. It's hard to sensibly reproduce history symmetrically, in which all players start at the same level of power; for an example of how this is handled in a board game, see Risk. There's good reason for this. One of the easiest ways to achieve "balance" in a game is to make it symmetric, with everyone beginning "the same."

The need for symmetric play has spilled over in video game design, with all classes being balanced against each other, even in single-player. That style of game development has influenced modern tabletop games for similar reasons: keeping all players equal smooths out the game's design. But I think something is lost in forcing symmetric design in a tabletop role-playing game.

What's Class Balance, Anyway?

The first problem is that "class balance" is a fungible metric. Presumably, all classes are "equally powerful" but what does that mean, really? If play is all about the individual, the game turns into a competition between players to see who can show off the most. For games where personal power is important, this can make sense--but I don't find it conducive to the fundamentals of teamwork Dungeons & Dragons was built on. If D&D is about cooperation, flattening out every character's power implies that they're in competition with each other.

When the game is about the success of the group as a whole, about co-operation, then there may be compensations for playing a less powerful class. In fact, some of the classes by their very nature are inherently unbalanced for a reason. Jonathan Tweet's most recent article about The Unbalanced Cleric is a perfect example. And there are opportunities for creativity in how your "less powerful" character copes with adventuring.

Variety is the Spice of Life

There's also something to be said for the variety that comes from characters of differing capabilities. It doesn't matter to me if some characters are more powerful than others, whether it's because of class, or items owned, or something else. Different characters with different power levels creates a form of interesting play.

Here's a real life analogy: The soccer striker who scores a lot versus one who makes many chances/assists and helps the team maintain possession. But in a profession where it's so hard to score, the one who scores a lot will usually be regarded as a better player ("more powerful"), or at least the one who is paid more. Yet both are equally valuable to the team. And offensive players tend to be more highly regarded than defensive players.

Magic is Not Balanced

Then there's the issue of magic. In earlier versions of D&D, magic-users did much more damage than anyone else thanks to area effect spells (I tracked this once with the aid of a program I wrote for a Radio Shack Model 100!). In a fantasy, doesn't it make sense for the magic users to be the most powerful characters? Heroes in novels, who often don't wield magic, are exceptions in many ways: without a lot of luck, they would never succeed.

Designers can avoid the "problem" of character class balance by using skill-based rules rather than rules with character classes. You can let players differentiate themselves from others by the skills they choose, without "unbalancing" them. And shouldn't each character feel different? There are certainly archetypes that character classes often follow, yet those archetypes exist for reasons other than "play balance!"

Still, won't magic use dominate? A GM/game designer can do things to mitigate the power of magic. For example. magic can be dangerous to use, and the world can be one of low rather than high magic, e.g. like Middle-earth more than like The Wheel of Time.

The Value of Combined Arms

In the only RPG I've designed--which is intended for use with a board game, so that simplicity is paramount--I use a classless system. But for a bigger game such as D&D, multiple classes help provide both differentiation and opportunities for cooperation ("combined arms"). And I enjoy devising new character classes. Whether you need a dozen or more classes is open to question, however. Nor do they need to be "equal."
 

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Lewis Pulsipher

Lewis Pulsipher

Dragon, White Dwarf, Fiend Folio
Well, your description only applies to old-school dungeon scenarios...

I understand your general idea though, but what you describe is essentially not about balance, but about interdependancy. To make sure a party needs each other in order to survive.

Why must it apply to dungeons? We've used BX to play court intrigue, wilderness exploration, military campaigns, plane-hopping adventures, and seafaring games - all without problem.

How is interdependancy different that balance?
 

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Lylandra

Adventurer
Interdependancy is needed in order to "force" the party to cooperate.

Balance is needed in order to let everyone have their share and contribute "equally".

You can easily imagine a balanced game with no interdependancy. (i.e. a game where every class has such a broad and equal toolkit that they don't necessarily need each other in most situations)

Or you can imagine a heavily interdepedant game without balance (i.e. a game where you need a certain class to deal with traps, and traps are a common obstacle, but that class is useless in any other situation)

Oh and my comment was a bit nit-picky as the situation you described was a 1:1 OldSchool dungeon scenario. -> What would the "undead-turning, healing" cleric do in a social court/intrigue situation? What can a fighter contribute?
 

But the player who control the champion fighter may poorly contribute to the fun of the session if he does not do it non-mechanically, because being able to reliably get 25 on a Str(Athletics) check is not going to get the party across the continent before nightfall.
One of the best sessions I have recent was due mostly by a accumulation of failed skill checks. Our poor roll put the story line in an very unexpected situation for players as well as Dm. instead of blaming our skill bonus we emphasis the situation by role play and explaining ourselves our incapacities.
 

Or you can imagine a heavily interdepedant game without balance (i.e. a game where you need a certain class to deal with traps, and traps are a common obstacle, but that class is useless in any other situation)

Oh and my comment was a bit nit-picky as the situation you described was a 1:1 OldSchool dungeon scenario. -> What would the "undead-turning, healing" cleric do in a social court/intrigue situation? What can a fighter contribute?

What's so imbalanced about the trap finder? If someone thinks playing one is fun, then the can and will continued to the success of the group. If it's no fun, no one can play one, and then the party can avoid adventures where traps are common. Or they can hire one instead of playing one. I see no problem as far as balance is concerned.

In the intrigue, the fighter handled duels and was useful for intimidating rivals. The cleric dealt with the church and was allowed special privilege due to his ability to perform miracles. Healing the sick also made for solid reputation with the common folk.
 

Cooperating to roleplaying the characters and increasing the fun of the session is usually unrestricted by class or game mechanics. Thus its not really relevant to a discussion of class balance.
You have to assume the player capabilities are equal. You cannot assume that the player who ends up with a "big toolbox" class is going to be bad at the non-mechanical aspects of the game, in order to make sure that the player with the "screwdriver class" is the one who shines at them.
Frankly, I think that it is quite likely that a player who is creative and a good problem-solver is going to be attracted to a "big toolbox class" because they probably value creativity and problem solving, and thus pick a class that it good at it.
We play a role playing game, not a problem solving game.
Impersonating a character inspired by X-men wolverine or Conan the barbarian should be dull, and reserved to less skilled players? While impersonating a Charles Xavier should be more fun because of a larger skill set?
 

Game balance means that a given choice isn't so overwhelmingly superior that any other choice is no longer logical. There is no real logical choice to play a 3e fighter.
Honestly there is no such bad choice in 5ed. Even tagged weak sub class such As monk way of elements are not desperated case.
Dnd is not a wargame, we should not expect a precision of balance required by those games.
By default ability scores are rolled, and starting a character with two 13 or two 18 should fit in the game expectation and not should produce feeling of underwhelming or imbalance.
you may feel otherwise, but the game goal and expectation have been built with that level of imprecision.
 

Honestly there is no such bad choice in 5ed. Even tagged weak sub class such As monk way of elements are not desperated case.
Dnd is not a wargame, we should not expect a precision of balance required by those games.
By default ability scores are rolled, and starting a character with two 13 or two 18 should fit in the game expectation and not should produce feeling of underwhelming or imbalance.
you may feel otherwise, but the game goal and expectation have been built with that level of imprecision.

I don't know. I think a dragonborn wizard with 8 INT might not be the best option, regardless of subclass.
 


We play a role playing game, not a problem solving game.
Roleplay doesn't need to interact with the rules mechanics. However other aspects of the game do. A lot of D&D involves problem solving, whether the problem is "how do we fight off these orcs", "how do we get past the guard" or "how does my character go about achieving his ambitions"

Impersonating a character inspired by X-men wolverine or Conan the barbarian should be dull, and reserved to less skilled players? While impersonating a Charles Xavier should be more fun because of a larger skill set?
Exactly! Now you're starting to get it.
 

Lylandra

Adventurer
What's so imbalanced about the trap finder? If someone thinks playing one is fun, then the can and will continued to the success of the group. If it's no fun, no one can play one, and then the party can avoid adventures where traps are common. Or they can hire one instead of playing one. I see no problem as far as balance is concerned.

In the intrigue, the fighter handled duels and was useful for intimidating rivals. The cleric dealt with the church and was allowed special privilege due to his ability to perform miracles. Healing the sick also made for solid reputation with the common folk.

If said trap finder is only good at finding and disarming traps, and traps make up for ~5% of the total game, then that is, by definition, an imbalance of relevant game time. At least in terms of games-y interaction. But I believe that we need to design games in a way that the DM's subjective jurisdiction can be taken out of the equation. Because oftentimes DMs play "by the rules" and little more.

(And yep, I'd totally hate playing Shadowrun with the Decker problematic. Even if the Decker usually has more to do than just roll two dice and be done for the next hour or so)

Also, what you describe is a good example of DMing done right - you considererd the background of your player's classes and let them fill their social niche regardless of skillset. Healing the sick for reputation, for example, is not how the "hard rules" expect you to impress people. At least in D&D. And I guess if you asked for a skill roll, then your rather unskilly cleric would likely screw it up.

Don't get me wrong, I do not wish to say that you're doing it wrong, on the contrary. I just had my fair share of situations where I got an interesting/fitting idea that should have totally worked, only to be limited by "rolling too low" or "not having the required skill". Putting too much faith in good and fair DMing is not a good sign for a game's design philosophy.
 

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