Star Trek Picard SPOILERS thread

[Truth Seeker]

That certainly is a mess, but I'm not sure where you get the idea that they can't use characters (such as Lore) from before 2009 in Picard (if that was even what you were saying back there)... because they obviously ARE using characters from before 2009. Like, all of them, except for the ones they're making up.

I must not be entirely following you. (Such is the nature of internet communication).

I may have mention it before, but I will repeat it again...the Star Trek license granted to BR, is the variant 25% license for the 2009 film, later for TV STD show, the same premise is shown in the look and visuals and history description.

As of December 7, 2019---the CBS and Paramount IPs use of Star Trek is now under one window again. Meanwhile Kurtzman has a 5 year contract should be one to two years left on it

BR/SH is strictly a third party using the visage of Trek, with certain limitations...the Kelvin timeline films shows this, the STD tv series, STP also shows this.

STP is maybe, the closest on showing the Prime Trek related visuals and story connections, but the variant rule Not spoken out in the open anymore, as CBS has silenced that table talk is still in place.

All previous makes of the DATA line, including the 'mother' of DATA are before the 2009 film of JJA release. If they do use them if so, the mention or use of Lore or the mother in the current show. the use of them has to be paid for.

There is no freebies on the IP license, this is strictly a business atmosphere. Merchandising as limited as it is, is not garnishing the extra revenue as they want. As example of the lack of visuals, the Las Vegas ST convention last year showed more folks cosplayers in the past series--NG, TOS series & movies, and maybe a few STD ones. That is a telltale sign on folks not taking well to the new incarnations. STD sour heavily that experience.

Everything is relative and connected to make the show more relevant in the people's eyes, and yes...there is talk that STP is a grade better than STD, but all of it, comes from the same company. Could the current series do better in someone's hands? Only time can tell on that one...

 

[Dire Bare]

I may have mention it before, but I will repeat it again...the Star Trek license granted to BR, is the variant 25% license for the 2009 film, later for TV STD show, the same premise is shown in the look and visuals and history description.

As of December 7, 2019---the CBS and Paramount IPs use of Star Trek is now under one window again. Meanwhile Kurtzman has a 5 year contract should be one to two years left on it

BR/SH is strictly a third party using the visage of Trek, with certain limitations...the Kelvin timeline films shows this, the STD tv series, STP also shows this.

STP is maybe, the closest on showing the Prime Trek related visuals and story connections, but the variant rule Not spoken out in the open anymore, as CBS has silenced that table talk is still in place.

All previous makes of the DATA line, including the 'mother' of DATA are before the 2009 film of JJA release. If they do use them if so, the mention or use of Lore or the mother in the current show. the use of them has to be paid for.

There is no freebies on the IP license, this is strictly a business atmosphere. Merchandising as limited as it is, is not garnishing the extra revenue as they want. As example of the lack of visuals, the Las Vegas ST convention last year showed more folks cosplayers in the past series--NG, TOS series & movies, and maybe a few STD ones. That is a telltale sign on folks not taking well to the new incarnations. STD sour heavily that experience.

Everything is relative and connected to make the show more relevant in the people's eyes, and yes...there is talk that STP is a grade better than STD, but all of it, comes from the same company. Could the current series do better in someone's hands? Only time can tell on that one...

I'm still sooooo confused over your claims here, and again, without more than "folks on the internet have been talking", I just can't buy any of it. The IP being split between CBS and Paramount was/is definitely a confusing and weird situation, and lawyers can definitely get weird about what you can and cannot use in a show (as a DC universe and Arrow-verse fan, I'm aware that silly limitations can be in place behind the scenes).

You seem to be claiming that ST: Picard can't use story elements and characters that have solely appeared before 2009 . . . . that's EVERYTHING other than the J.J. Abrams films! They wouldn't be able to use the characters of Picard, Data, Maddox, and the rest of the old crew who've been teased to appear later in the series. I might be misunderstanding your point, but . . . .

And even if that were true, that's not a reflection on the knowledge and quality of the show's writing . . . .

And . . . . you're basing your impression of what folks choose to cosplay as to how well the new series are being received?!?! Um, okay, you've totally lost me on this one. I don't go to Star Trek conventions (although, I'm sure it would be a lot of fun), but we've got 50+ years of Trek to pull cosplay inspiration from, and both ST: Discovery and ST: Picard are the new kids on the block. Regardless of how existing Trek fans are digging (or not digging) the new shows, I would expect the older characters to dominate cosplay for quite some time to come. In my own anecdotal experience, I've seen plenty of ST: Discovery cosplay online, nothing from ST: Picard yet (but we're only 2 episodes in).

 

[Truth Seeker]

You are making a lot of unsupported claims about the show here, and it's why nobody in the thread seems to be following your train of thought. Now, this is just a casual conversation, you don't have to dig up any hard evidence if you don't want to, but . . . . without some actual evidence of your claims, I just can't buy anything you're selling here.

In my view, this show is clearly aimed at the adult crowd (although I'm sure the showrunners would love younger audiences to join in too), adults who are long-time Star Trek fans, and adults who aren't terribly familiar with Star Trek, but do love good cerebral sci-fi. The writers have a great knowledge of Trek lore, and they are very deliberately building on top of it for this show. The show's premise, if anything, builds too much on Trek lore that it risks losing viewers who haven't watched The Next Generation (my Mom is a bit confused about what's going on). All of my Trekkie friends are excited about the show, my family (non-Trekkies) are watching it, and many of my 13-year-old students are also (I'm a middle-school teacher).

I'm sure we'll get some "collectibles" at some point down the road, if not actual toys, and the lack thereof after 2 episodes doesn't concern me in the least. In the past, one of the only ways to get sci-fi on TV was to aim it at kids and tie-in a toyline, but that's not true anymore and hasn't been for quite some time. Sci-fi showrunners have also been given more power to delay merchandising tie-ins to avoid spoilers (the whole Baby Yoda thing).

And ultimately, Picard isn't a continuation of The Next Generation, not really, despite the main character. It's a different show, a different style of storytelling, aimed at a different audience than sci-fi fans in the late 80s. And it's only one egg in the Star Trek basket, alongside Discovery and the several shows and movies that are in the works right now.

All of the media I've seen so far on Picard has been gushing, the only complaint that comes to mind is the slow-burn of the story (we haven't met most of the characters teased in the trailers yet). I haven't seen any of the negative chatter you reference . . . . although I don't hang out on the Star Trek equivalent to ENWorld (not even sure what that is). I wouldn't be surprised if some cranky Star Trek purists are upset, just as we have a contingent of folks here on ENWorld who manage to find complaints about almost everything WotC does with D&D. But I'm not worried that Picard is in danger! Season 2 is already greenlit, and there's a lot of excited, happy fans tuning in every week as the bio-android mystery deepens.

Sir Patrick Stewart has already said in previous interviews, he did not want to channel the Same character from NGST, I am fine with that. And that was said before the show aired.

If there any collectibles to be sold down the road, the show has to grow and maintain the interest to itself, consistently...the staying power has to be there.

Catering to the Adults looks to be so, but getting the young ones after us, should be the goal too.

The reviews from Rotten Tomatoes are questionable, considering the past events on other films being bolstered with incorrect ratings or reviews. this is a example

And yes, I have seen the positive side, but that glare will disappear at one point.

As I said before and will say again, like very much the show to be successful, but there is no reason, to start with flaws that will be questioned. And the excuse that the show is getting its legs, to me is lame. If there are folks who are seasoned writers, producers and directors should have a greater understanding to how to present a show, no matter what the genre is. Telling the story visually, knowledgeably and story telling should show from their experience and expertise.

As for the negative chatter, that is people questioning the intent of the show.

 

[Dire Bare]

Sir Patrick Stewart has already said in previous interviews, he did not want to channel the Same character from NGST, I am fine with that. And that was said before the show aired.

Stewart is talking about character growth. In both the real world and the Star Trek universe, decades have passed. Jean-Luc Picard is not the same person he was 20 years ago, just as Patrick Stewart isn't the same person he was 20 years ago. Neither am I, for that matter. I'm not the same kid tuning in every week jealous that Wil Wheaton gets to be on the Enterprise and I don't . . . .

Stewart was not interested in ST: The Next Generation "Season 8", or in yet another entry in the movie series after ST: Nemesis, where (in episodic storytelling fashion) Picard is in pretty much the same place he was in most episodes of the show. Stewart has expressed similar sentiments in reprising the role of Professor X in the X-Men franchise. Both the Professor X of "Logan" and the Picard of "Star Trek: Picard" are men who have grown and are in very different places in their lives from what we remember "back in the day".

AND I LOVE THIS! I'd watch a "Season 8" of Next Gen, don't get me wrong, but this is storytelling that has me excited and intrigued. Way more interesting to see how the decades have treated Picard than watching a re-tread of Next Gen. ST: Picard builds on top of the lore of Next Gen and the rest of Star Trek, but it is most certainly a show with a different storytelling tone for an audience that has also changed over the years, long-time Trek fans and just sci-fi fans in general.

Are there some long-time fans grumpy that ST: Disco and ST: Picard are "not true Star Trek" shows, just like we had grognards here on ENWorld grumping that the latest D&D edition is "not my D&D"?!?! Of course we do. That is a constant of life. But is there a LOT of fans unhappy with the direction of the new Star Trek shows? Possibly, I suppose, but I haven't seen evidence of it, and both shows seem to be doing just fine.

EDIT: Add in last paragraph.

 

[Truth Seeker]

I'm still sooooo confused over your claims here, and again, without more than "folks on the internet have been talking", I just can't buy any of it. The IP being split between CBS and Paramount was/is definitely a confusing and weird situation, and lawyers can definitely get weird about what you can and cannot use in a show (as a DC universe and Arrow-verse fan, I'm aware that silly limitations can be in place behind the scenes).

You seem to be claiming that ST: Picard can't use story elements and characters that have solely appeared before 2009 . . . . that's EVERYTHING other than the J.J. Abrams films! They wouldn't be able to use the characters of Picard, Data, Maddox, and the rest of the old crew who've been teased to appear later in the series. I might be misunderstanding your point, but . . . .

And even if that were true, that's not a reflection on the knowledge and quality of the show's writing . . . .

And . . . . you're basing your impression of what folks choose to cosplay as to how well the new series are being received?!?! Um, okay, you've totally lost me on this one. I don't go to Star Trek conventions (although, I'm sure it would be a lot of fun), but we've got 50+ years of Trek to pull cosplay inspiration from, and both ST: Discovery and ST: Picard are the new kids on the block. Regardless of how existing Trek fans are digging (or not digging) the new shows, I would expect the older characters to dominate cosplay for quite some time to come. In my own anecdotal experience, I've seen plenty of ST: Discovery cosplay online, nothing from ST: Picard yet (but we're only 2 episodes in).

Are you serious getting bent of shape, because I question the premise of its make? Or it is that I have been a quiet fellow in this thread for months or years, and then suddenly I just appeared out of no where?

It is okay, you question what I say...I don't say things out of the blue, for kicks for any reason. I have listen to other sources when the show was announced and continue to do so while it airs. Comparison to what was to what is now, is our preview to do. And throwing the D&D references pails in difference to what Trek means to many.

As for Picard, this is his personal story...his journey for one great hooray, it will be less Trek in appearance, because he is not directly in Star Fleet. I am okay with that too.

As for the misunderstanding, there is not enough reference from me to conclude a MOD that can be compared. Blame Facebook LOL.

Bottom line...if the show does not rise to the occasion, it is not our fault. And being cautious is part of the process on the flipping of our beloved franchises. Nothing is accepted at Face value, EnWorld taught me that.

 

[Dire Bare]

Are you serious getting bent of shape, because I question the premise of its make? Or it is that I have been a quiet fellow in this thread for months or years, and then suddenly I just appeared out of no where?

It is okay, you question what I say...I don't say things out of the blue, for kicks for any reason. I have listen to other sources when the show was announced and continue to do so while it airs. Comparison to what was to what is now, is our preview to do. And throwing the D&D references pails in difference to what Trek means to many.

As for Picard, this is his personal story...his journey for one great hooray, it will be less Trek in appearance, because he is not directly in Star Fleet. I am okay with that too.

As for the misunderstanding, there is not enough reference from me to conclude a MOD that can be compared. Blame Facebook LOL.

Bottom line...if the show does not rise to the occasion, it is not our fault. And being cautious is part of the process on the flipping of our beloved franchises. Nothing is accepted at Face value, EnWorld taught me that.

Bent out of shape? Nah. Not understanding your point? Yeah. This is just a casual conversation about a nerdy TV show, but it's easy to get a bit passionate about it, positively or negatively, as I'm sure most in this thread LOVE Star Trek, just as we LOVE D&D and hang out on ENWorld.

If I've gotten too excited while expressing my disagreement and confusion over your points, sorry. From my POV, I'm so in love with this new show, ST: Picard, that the negative views expressed by some confuse me . . . are we watching the same show?!?! But anyway, to each his own, YMMV, yada yada . . . .

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Count me in, too, on not following your point of view, while not being upset about it, and honestly trying to understand what you're talking about, because I feel like you have something interesting to say, I'm just not sure what it is.

Case in point:

As for the misunderstanding, there is not enough reference from me to conclude a MOD that can be compared. Blame Facebook LOL.

... I have no idea what any of that means.

 

[MarkB]

Are you serious getting bent of shape, because I question the premise of its make? Or it is that I have been a quiet fellow in this thread for months or years, and then suddenly I just appeared out of no where?

Uhhh... the thread's only existed for nine days...?

 

[Dire Bare]

Uhhh... the thread's only existed for nine days...?

Dude. You know what he means. Long-time lurker, infrequent poster. Can we not waste time criticizing others grammar and word-choices . . . . at least on the easy-to-understand and relatively minor points?

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Dude. You know what he means. Long-time lurker, infrequent poster. Can we not waste time criticizing others grammar and word-choices?

I think MarkB's point was only that most of us here are unlikely to even know that Truth Seeker is an infrequent poster or just popped up. We're very unlikely to have it influence how we respond to him/her here.

I doubt it was meant as much of a criticism.