Star Trek Picard SPOILERS thread

trappedslider

Adventurer
okay from memory alpha (canon ST) we get the following info:

The Romulan Star Empire asked the United Federation of Planets for help with evacuation efforts, and Starfleet agreed to provide aid at the behest of Jean-Luc Picard. Picard left the USS Enterprise-E to command a rescue armada of ten thousand Federation tugs, with the intent to relocate 900 million Romulan citizens to worlds outside the blast of the supernova. He would later compare this rescue effort to the Dunkirk evacuation of World War II.

(Then the fire nation attacked)
 

FitzTheRuke

Adventurer
I mean, they give us a number of people saved.
Oh. I've had the impression that 900 million was the number of Romulans that needed evacuating. You mean, it was the number that was successfully evacuatED and we don't know how many died? Could have been billions? Is that correct?

Quite a few. The Enterprise-D has at least 8 transporter rooms, plus three shuttle bays. It's established in canon that its entire crew can be evacuated in 7 minutes.
You mean a well-trained and organised crew can LEAVE the ship in 7 minutes, right? I'm more wondering just how many people they can take off a planet and how long it would take to "fill up" to the ship's refugee capacity.

I mean, even when you beam a group to the transporter pad, you've still got to get them off the pad and out before you do the next group, and I bet conflict would occur regularly too!
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
I mean, they give us a number of people saved - note that it is less than a billion. Real Earth right now has 7 billion - assume an advanced civilizations got at least that many on their home world. Which suggests... most of the Romulan population didn't make it. We get a sense of the cataastrophe from that.
I just watched it again. It wasn't 900M of of a 9B population that got saved. It was 900M total that needed to get saved. I don't know what the capital world of a stellar empire had only 900M people on it, but them's the stated facts.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Oh. I've had the impression that 900 million was the number of Romulans that needed evacuating. You mean, it was the number that was successfully evacuatED and we don't know how many died? Could have been billions? Is that correct?
No, you're right. Just 900M need saving.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
We'll also note that Picard directly referenced Dunkirk. That means they definitely mobilised/commandeered civilian vessels.
 

FitzTheRuke

Adventurer
No, you're right. Just 900M need saving.
Right. And some nebulous number failed to be relocated, and some that WERE relocated were only meant to be placed temporarily on less-than-best planets and then further relocated afterward, which didn't happen. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but that seems like what the Romulans that Picard visited were angry about, right?)
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Right. And some nebulous number failed to be relocated, and some that WERE relocated were only meant to be placed temporarily on less-than-best planets and then further relocated afterward, which didn't happen. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but that seems like what the Romulans that Picard visited were angry about, right?)
My impressions was 900M needed evacuating, but he quit after some opposition, and only a portion of those actually got saved,
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
I just watched it again. It wasn't 900M of of a 9B population that got saved. It was 900M total that needed to get saved. I don't know what the capital world of a stellar empire had only 900M people on it, but them's the stated facts.
Memory alpha states it as, "Starfleet began constructing a fleet of ten thousand Federation tugs to help transport 900 million Romulan citizens away from the star's blast radius "

If they were moving the entire population, it would have read, "..to help transport the 900 million Romulan citizens..."

I think it is more, "We have this plan - with our resources, we can move 900 million people. Your own resources will have to move others..."

Because, as noted, 900 million for the homeworld of a major star empire seems very, very low.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
If they were moving the entire population, it would have read, "..to help transport the 900 million Romulan citizens..."
I wouldn't rely on the grammar of a fan wiki to prove your point. From the show itself, 900M appears to be the number of people who needed rescuing. Yes, it seems low. But hey. Star Trek.
 

FitzTheRuke

Adventurer
I wouldn't rely on the grammar of a fan wiki to prove your point. From the show itself, 900M appears to be the number of people who needed rescuing. Yes, it seems low. But hey. Star Trek.
I dunno, it's pretty vague. It may have been the Federation's contribution to the evac effort. Perhaps the Romulans rescued more on their own. The main thing we know is that the Federation evacuated SOME people, but not as many as they promised. Of course, it turns out they had a pretty good excuse, if the ships they were fast-tracking to do it all got blown up by some crazy synth uprising.
 

MarkB

Legend
I wouldn't rely on the grammar of a fan wiki to prove your point. From the show itself, 900M appears to be the number of people who needed rescuing. Yes, it seems low. But hey. Star Trek.
The interview in episode 1 gives the 900 million figure, but Raffi in the flashback in episode 3 says there are billions of people within the supernova's blast radius. I think the 900 million were simply the ones that Picard began moving with the available fleet, while the larger fleet was still under construction on Mars.
 

FitzTheRuke

Adventurer
The interview in episode 1 gives the 900 million figure, but Raffi in the flashback in episode 3 says there are billions of people within the supernova's blast radius. I think the 900 million were simply the ones that Picard began moving with the available fleet, while the larger fleet was still under construction on Mars.
Right. Makes sense that 900 million was the Federation's projected effort, and they failed to get it all done, by some nebulous number.
 

Vael

Adventurer
I wouldn't rely on the grammar of a fan wiki to prove your point. From the show itself, 900M appears to be the number of people who needed rescuing. Yes, it seems low. But hey. Star Trek.
Scale and numbers all tend to be off in Star Trek in general. I remember finding the death toll on Mars (92,143) was actually pretty light given that the atmosphere of the planet is, according to the reporter, still on fire.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Scale and numbers all tend to be off in Star Trek in general. I remember finding the death toll on Mars (92,143) was actually pretty light given that the atmosphere of the planet is, according to the reporter, still on fire.
What was the population of Mars?
 

Vael

Adventurer
What was the population of Mars?
Unknown, but, according to Memory Alpha, it had been terraformed to the point that you could walk outside without an environmental suit before the founding of the Federation (ie, during Enterprise). And Star Trek Picard implies that the planet is no longer habitable, so those that didn't die in the attack have left.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
You have an estimate though? Because you found a bombing death toll of 94K to be light? Or, I guess, what percentage is light in a bombing situation?

(I’m personally comparing this to the Blitz, but just one night, not months on end).
 

Vael

Adventurer
You have an estimate though? Because you found a bombing death toll of 94K to be light? Or, I guess, what percentage is light in a bombing situation?

(I’m personally comparing this to the Blitz, but just one night, not months on end).
I'm thinking more the bombing of Hiroshima x every major city on Mars. Explosions are visible from orbit, and the whole planet is no longer habitable. Mars is one of Earth's oldest colony worlds, so I'd guess it has a population in the millions, minimum.

Put it this way, Ottawa has a population of 934K.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
I'm thinking more the bombing of Hiroshima x every major city on Mars. Explosions are visible from orbit, and the whole planet is no longer habitable. Mars is one of Earth's oldest colony worlds, so I'd guess it has a population in the millions, minimum.
Is that a thing? I always assumed a few colonies at most. Most UFP worlds are Class-M planets; Genesis was a big terraforming deal, and they never used it. Where are you getting the millions from?

Put it this way, Ottawa has a population of 934K.
New Milton has a population of 25,717.
 

MarkB

Legend
Is that a thing? I always assumed a few colonies at most. Most UFP worlds are Class-M planets; Genesis was a big terraforming deal, and they never used it. Where are you getting the millions from?
Put it this way, the Moon in Star Trek has multiple cities on it, and it doesn't even have an atmosphere. If Mars was minimally populated, why would they have bothered to terraform it to the extent of having a breathable atmosphere?
 

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