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Star Trek Picard SPOILERS thread

Hussar

Legend
Class 4 replicators are also a Big Deal though, to the extent that (a) the Cardassians, a very advanced civilisation, don't have their own, and have to ask the Federation for them, and (b) when they get stolen, it's not just a simple matter of shipping over a few more from storage.

On Bajor, there's very nearly a civil uprising over the allocation of replicator technology to agricultural regions in order to regenerate land viability. There are only a handful available, and losing one for a few months can make the difference between surviving and going bust.

Basically, domestic and commercial grade replicators are reasonably inexpensive, but scaling them up to industrial grade gets exponentially more costly.
I thought they didn't have them because they got destroyed.

Sure, Bajor had an issue. But, the Romulans have many, many planets outside of their homeworld. And, they had more than a couple of years to evacuate their homeworld as well. You'd think they'd have the capacity that after more than 14 years on a planet, they would at least be able to pave the streets and not live in shanty towns.

I guess it would have been too expensive to make more than one set. :D
 

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MarkB

Legend
So, something that occurred to me last episode, which I haven't seen much speculation about - though admittedly I do try to avoid most of the more speculative sites to avoid spoilers.

The first scene we see of Rios, where he's got the piece of shrapnel in his shoulder, didn't much stand out for me at the time - it seemed like just a slightly overblown way of suggesting that he was a bit of a badass. But as we've seen all of his identically-faced emergency holograms, seemingly for every function of the ship, it did creep up on me that the shrapnel scene would be an excellent way for someone to establish themselves to a newcomer as definitely being a real, flesh-and-blood person, should they feel a need to do so.

What are the chances that we're ultimately going to find that Rios himself is just another holographic personality, on a starship that is essentially running itself? I know he talks about sleeping and dreaming, but I feel like an EMH that had been left running for long enough might adopt such practices, either deliberately or as a developing personality quirk, perhaps to serve much the same function of memory-sorting that dreams do for humans.

And it would certainly fit the running themes of the series very well.
 

Mort

Adventurer
Supporter
So, something that occurred to me last episode, which I haven't seen much speculation about - though admittedly I do try to avoid most of the more speculative sites to avoid spoilers.

The first scene we see of Rios, where he's got the piece of shrapnel in his shoulder, didn't much stand out for me at the time - it seemed like just a slightly overblown way of suggesting that he was a bit of a badass. But as we've seen all of his identically-faced emergency holograms, seemingly for every function of the ship, it did creep up on me that the shrapnel scene would be an excellent way for someone to establish themselves to a newcomer as definitely being a real, flesh-and-blood person, should they feel a need to do so.

What are the chances that we're ultimately going to find that Rios himself is just another holographic personality, on a starship that is essentially running itself? I know he talks about sleeping and dreaming, but I feel like an EMH that had been left running for long enough might adopt such practices, either deliberately or as a developing personality quirk, perhaps to serve much the same function of memory-sorting that dreams do for humans.

And it would certainly fit the running themes of the series very well.
It would be great if the show went in this direction - even Rios getting off the ship isn't 100% definitive as portable holo technology has been around since at least Voyager.

I was wondering if the show was going to explore synthetic vs, hologram "life." The holograms of Star Trek have quite often taken on real life - heck one was a main character! Starfleet has outlawed synthetic life form creation - but holograms still seem to be relatively common (that's a guess - but we've seen 2 separate instances already - not just on the ship).

Interesting to see where this goes (might not be anywhere, the show is already spinning a lot of plates).
 

Beleriphon

Totally Awesome Pirate Brain
I was wondering if the show was going to explore synthetic vs, hologram "life." The holograms of Star Trek have quite often taken on real life - heck one was a main character! Starfleet has outlawed synthetic life form creation - but holograms still seem to be relatively common (that's a guess - but we've seen 2 separate instances already - not just on the ship).
I doubt it, the holograms are still computer programs with an interface. Starfleet doesn't seem to have banned AI research, but instead how to cram that AI into a humaoind shape, since it otherwise takes a starship's computer to manage it.
 

Janx

Hero
I guess it would have been too expensive to make more than one set. :D
Plus it would have weakened the "you abandoned us, Picard" vibe they had going on. Reinforced by the initial White Man Welcome we got at the beginning and how stagnant they were without his help. That particular vibe wouldn't have been so strong if he literally didn't arrive dressed like a British Explorer among the starving natives.
 

MarkB

Legend
Plus it would have weakened the "you abandoned us, Picard" vibe they had going on. Reinforced by the initial White Man Welcome we got at the beginning and how stagnant they were without his help. That particular vibe wouldn't have been so strong if he literally didn't arrive dressed like a British Explorer among the starving natives.
Yeah, that outfit was not exactly subtle in its subtext.
 

Rabulias

Adventurer
I like the twins aspect to all this, and it has stirred a lot of thoughts on parallels and contrasts. Assuming the Romulan prophecy of the "one who dies" and the "destroyer" is true, like most cryptic prophecies, it might be being misinterpreted.

Data was the twin who died, and B4 (or Lore?) might be the destroyer. Though I guess they would be triplets? (There are three sides to the Romulan tarot cards...)

Twins don't need to be identical. Narek and Rizzo - are they twins?

Perhaps it is more abstract than that, though. Here we get into my overthinking this. ;-)

Let's not forget Romulus and Remus. Did anyone talk about evacuating the Remans from the supernova? They seemed pretty resentful of both the Romulans and the Federation back in Star Trek Nemesis.

I find myself mulling about the similarities between the Federation and the Romulans. Too often the Federation seems to have a secret cabal working within it. And there is the "open" secret cabal of Section 31. Compare to the divide in Romulan culture, a weird mirror image of the Federation, the openness of the warrior nuns are the minority vs the more traditional Romulan secrecy and stoicism. There's even a deeper division between the Tal Shiar (the Romulan Section 31?) and the Zhat Vash. Is there a deeper group within Section 31?

Going further out into left field, we have the stark contrast of abundance and scarcity - Picard's chateau vs Raffi's trailer, the Federation in general vs the relocated Romulans.

Finally organic vs synthetic, with the Borg sitting in the middle as a hybrid of both in a way.

I am interested to see where they go with this show.
 

Mustrum_Ridcully

Adventurer
So, something that occurred to me last episode, which I haven't seen much speculation about - though admittedly I do try to avoid most of the more speculative sites to avoid spoilers.

The first scene we see of Rios, where he's got the piece of shrapnel in his shoulder, didn't much stand out for me at the time - it seemed like just a slightly overblown way of suggesting that he was a bit of a badass. But as we've seen all of his identically-faced emergency holograms, seemingly for every function of the ship, it did creep up on me that the shrapnel scene would be an excellent way for someone to establish themselves to a newcomer as definitely being a real, flesh-and-blood person, should they feel a need to do so.

What are the chances that we're ultimately going to find that Rios himself is just another holographic personality, on a starship that is essentially running itself? I know he talks about sleeping and dreaming, but I feel like an EMH that had been left running for long enough might adopt such practices, either deliberately or as a developing personality quirk, perhaps to serve much the same function of memory-sorting that dreams do for humans.

And it would certainly fit the running themes of the series very well.
It is a possibility that he's just a hologram, too, but the other possibliity is that whatever happened on his old ship meant that he had lost a lot of people and thus fears surrounding himself with real people, particularly people he likes. (He seems to complain a lot about his holograms).

I find myself mulling about the similarities between the Federation and the Romulans. Too often the Federation seems to have a secret cabal working within it. And there is the "open" secret cabal of Section 31. Compare to the divide in Romulan culture, a weird mirror image of the Federation, the openness of the warrior nuns are the minority vs the more traditional Romulan secrecy and stoicism. There's even a deeper division between the Tal Shiar (the Romulan Section 31?) and the Zhat Vash. Is there a deeper group within Section 31?
Well, Tal'Shiar might have been a secret police, but she wasn't actually a secret organization. It was more or less common knowledge it existed.
So I think the more accurate equivalent for the Tal'Shiar is actually Starfleet Intelligence, and Section 31 is the Federation's equivalent of the Zhat Vash (at least in regards to secrecy, not necessarily organizational structure or history.)

Going further out into left field, we have the stark contrast of abundance and scarcity - Picard's chateau vs Raffi's trailer, the Federation in general vs the relocated Romulans.
I think however it's wrong to interpret Picard's chateau and Raffi's trailer as a purely economical thing. It might have a lot more to do with how they were able to deal with the ends of their career - it's psychology, not economy. Picard didn't go in a downward spiral, he took over the vinyard and started writing books. But Raffi didn't deal with it so "well". She isolated herself, became basically depressed due to her situation, and her living arrangements is not a sign of being financially poor off, but being emotionally poor off, and making a concious or unconcious choise to live as she does. She is envious that Picard seems to have such an easy time dealing with it - but in truth, he didn't actually respond well to it, either. As he said himself, he has not really been living, he had been waiting to die. Raffi picked up some weed and conspiracy theory chasing, Picard took on the Vinyard and his books, but both area really just trying to distract themselves from their frustrations.

I figure a lot of the story of Picard is about these people's emotional journey and their need to find a purpose for their life (I guess this conceit makes it difficult for some people to like the show, too. Star Trek is usually about a hopeful future, and traditionally, hope is restored at the end of an episode or maybe a two-parter - but this journey might take the entire season - if not the entire full 3 seasons they apparently have outlined for Picard.)
 

Sadras

Hero
I figure a lot of the story of Picard is about these people's emotional journey and their need to find a purpose for their life (I guess this conceit makes it difficult for some people to like the show, too. Star Trek is usually about a hopeful future, and traditionally, hope is restored at the end of an episode or maybe a two-parter - but this journey might take the entire season - if not the entire full 3 seasons they apparently have outlined for Picard.)
Emphasis mine - Nope, it is because it is so badly written.

"You know what this crew needs? Someone with a sword. I know a guy..."
Every party needs an Elf Monk, right? The only good thing out of this is that some D&D nerds are being paid for their hack writing and love for space elves. People have to make a living afterall.

And yet, he has not one but two former Romulan special forces agents with years of training, contacts and direct insight and intel on their enemy but they can stay back home and vacuum the sitting room. Good stuff!
 

And yet, he has not one but two former Romulan special forces agents with years of training, contacts and direct insight and intel on their enemy but they can stay back home and vacuum the sitting room. Good stuff!
I don't agree overall that it's badly written, but this bit sure doesn't make much sense.
 

Dire Bare

Legend
Supporter
And yet, he has not one but two former Romulan special forces agents with years of training, contacts and direct insight and intel on their enemy but they can stay back home and vacuum the sitting room. Good stuff!
Yes, it's so badly written that it's one of the more popular streaming shows right now. Okay. It has plot holes, sure . . . I've never watched a Trek episode or movie without them.

Picard never asks his Romulan friends/employees to come along, and perhaps we should have gotten a few lines as to why. I can think of plenty of reasons that mesh fine with the plot, so it doesn't bother me, but it is certainly a small plot hole.
 

MarkB

Legend
I don't agree overall that it's badly written, but this bit sure doesn't make much sense.
When they asked him about contacting some of his old buddies from the Enterprise, Picard told Laris and Zhaban that he knew any of them would gladly put their lives on the line for him, but that he very much didn't want to go through that again with people he cared about so deeply. After living with them for over a dozen years, I'm sure that sentiment extends to Laris and Zhaban themselves too. Picard is almost certainly much happier knowing that they're staying behind to clean up the mess and keep things running in his absence.
 

Mallus

Hero
When they asked him about contacting some of his old buddies from the Enterprise, Picard told Laris and Zhaban that he knew any of them would gladly put their lives on the line for him, but that he very much didn't want to go through that again with people he cared about so deeply.
Bingo. It's made clear Picard is refraining from asking the people he cares about the most to accompany him. This includes Laris and Zhaban at this point in his life (but not, for instance, Raffi, whose relationship with JL is... complicated). He doesn't want to drag his former Tal Shiar friends back into that life -- outside of a quick trip to Boston -- and knows it would put a strain on Laris and Zhaban's relationship. He's unwilling to do that.

This isn't particularly flattering to Jean-Luc, this whiff of calculation of personal emotional expendability, who he is comfortable burdening, endangering even, and who he is not. But it's definitely intentional.

It's also ranks as one of the most insightful things Star Trek has said about getting old since The Wrath of Khan.
 

MarkB

Legend
Every party needs an Elf Monk, right? The only good thing out of this is that some D&D nerds are being paid for their hack writing and love for space elves. People have to make a living afterall.
I have to admit, I do like the concept of an honour-bound warrior who will only fully commit to a cause if it's a hopeless cause. It feels very paladin-y, in a good way - almost worthy of its own Oath.
 

bloodtide

Explorer
Epsiode five was good! Special guest star Seven of Nine steals the show...and has mean old man Picard just sit down and be quiet.

And look, she turns out to be the ''Dr. Smith" of the group...wow very unshocking.
 

Mallus

Hero
A caper on Planet Seastead featuring phaser fire, pimp hats, and the observation that to be fully human is to lie to yourself and others... that was a rather unusual episode of Star Trek! But not a bad one.

However, this combination of flamboyant pulp and emotional intelligence is threatening to turn Picard into Farscape: The Next Generation.
 

Vael

Adventurer
However, this combination of flamboyant pulp and emotional intelligence is threatening to turn Picard into Farscape: The Next Generation.
You say that like it's a bad thing. Rios needs to either lose his shirt more or get some leather pants if he's going to match up against Crichton though. I encourage him to try.

Anyway, a solid episode, I do hope we get more Seven. I was sorry to see Icheb go like that, that was a gory end.

It's definitely interesting seeing these worlds outside the Federation's control, Freecloud was intriguing.
 

Mallus

Hero
You say that like it's a bad thing. Rios needs to either lose his shirt more or get some leather pants if he's going to match up against Crichton though. I encourage him to try.
Heh... I meant it as high praise. I love Farscape. And “Braca, do these pants make my ass look fat?” is one of the best, of not finest, lines of dialog spoken in televised science fiction (though I might be paraphrasing a bit).

It's definitely interesting seeing these worlds outside the Federation's control, Freecloud was intriguing.
I definitely want to see more stories told in this era of the Federation, and I’m still a bit surprised that one of the strongest elements of Picard is the worlbuilding.
 

Raunalyn

Adventurer
The last episode was ok...but I had a problem with a pretty big plot hole.

The crew goes down to the planet "disguised." Picard puts on an eyepatch and pretends to be a bounty hunter ("I'm french! Why do you think I have this outrageous accent!").

How is it that one of the most famous people in the Federation (and one who had just had a widely publicized interview that was critical of Starfleet) was able to pull off such a ridiculous disguise and not be recognized?
 

Ryujin

Adventurer
The last episode was ok...but I had a problem with a pretty big plot hole.

The crew goes down to the planet "disguised." Picard puts on an eyepatch and pretends to be a bounty hunter ("I'm french! Why do you think I have this outrageous accent!").

How is it that one of the most famous people in the Federation (and one who had just had a widely publicized interview that was critical of Starfleet) was able to pull off such a ridiculous disguise and not be recognized?
 

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