D&D 5E Fireball tweak idea

[TheCosmicKid]

I am hardly the first to notice that fireball is a pretty good spell. In fact, in my experience it tends to crowd out all the other 3rd-level options, even for characters who aren't big on evocation. I don't want to nerf it into the ground: it's iconic, and tossing a room-filling explosion should have a sudden and dramatic effect (I'm looking at you, 4E). But explosions are also fickle. So here's a simple change that sprang to mind this morning:

Increase the radius of the fireball by 5 feet for each 6 you roll on its damage dice. Decrease the radius of the fireball by 5 feet for each 1 you roll on its damage dice (to a minimum of 5 feet).

So it's still a big, painful kaboom. It's still absolutely the right tool for the job in some circumstances. But because the radius is unpredictable, the caster can't place it with surgical precision and use it in every circumstance -- not without the risk of frying an ally, anyway.

Thoughts?

 

[jgsugden]

A fun modification in certain games, but only in certain games. The day the wizard rolls 5 6s and wipes out dozens of innocent bystanders is going to ruin some games.

It is intended to be strong for a third level spell, but it is not out of line with Spirit Guardians, Counterspell Hypnotic Pattern, Haste or Major Image.

 

[Reynard]

I am hardly the first to notice that fireball is a pretty good spell. In fact, in my experience it tends to crowd out all the other 3rd-level options, even for characters who aren't big on evocation. I don't want to nerf it into the ground: it's iconic, and tossing a room-filling explosion should have a sudden and dramatic effect (I'm looking at you, 4E). But explosions are also fickle. So here's a simple change that sprang to mind this morning:

Increase the radius of the fireball by 5 feet for each 6 you roll on its damage dice. Decrease the radius of the fireball by 5 feet for each 1 you roll on its damage dice (to a minimum of 5 feet).

So it's still a big, painful kaboom. It's still absolutely the right tool for the job in some circumstances. But because the radius is unpredictable, the caster can't place it with surgical precision and use it in every circumstance -- not without the risk of frying an ally, anyway.

Thoughts?

Interesting idea, but magic in D&D is not especially unpredictable by design (other than totals of damage) and I think making it so pushes against the basic assumptions around the spell casting classes.

I think an easy way to make fireball a less automatic choice for casters is to make it less useful in the fiction. If every PC wizard has it, that means every wizard has it. And if every wizard has it, the kinds of enemies susceptible to it -- mainly low level humanoids -- will account for it in their tactics. They won't bunch up. They'll target the wizard. They will come in waves. they will use protective magic if available. Ubiquity is a weakness.

 

[R_J_K75]

Interesting idea, but magic in D&D is not especially unpredictable by design (other than totals of damage) and I think making it so pushes against the basic assumptions around the spell casting classes.

I think an easy way to make fireball a less automatic choice for casters is to make it less useful in the fiction. If every PC wizard has it, that means every wizard has it. And if every wizard has it, the kinds of enemies susceptible to it -- mainly low level humanoids -- will account for it in their tactics. They won't bunch up. They'll target the wizard. They will come in waves. they will use protective magic if available. Ubiquity is a weakness.

Before 3E wizards were pretty reliant on their DM for what spells they got iirc. At least in our games the DM gave you your 1st level spells. All levels after the spells you gained were from whatever was in found or bought spellbooks, scrolls or research. There wasnt much in the way of being able to choose what spells you acquired other than choosing to learn what you did get or waiting until you got what you wanted. So leaning more towards this approach might do as you said and limit the need to change spells.

 

[aco175]

I would roll just one die with the damage to determine the size. You could add a d8 with a roll of 1 meaning 10ft, 2 for 5ft. Roll a 7 and expand 5ft and roll an 8 for 10ft. It would be simpler than checking the rest of the dice. The DM also could roll this.

I wonder how this compares to the other spells and if you will now need to do something to some of the others.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

Ithink an easy way to make fireball a less automatic choice for casters is to make it less useful in the fiction. If every PC wizard has it, that means every wizard has it. And if every wizard has it, the kinds of enemies susceptible to it -- mainly low level humanoids -- will account for it in their tactics. They won't bunch up. They'll target the wizard. They will come in waves. they will use protective magic if available. Ubiquity is a weakness.

You're assuming a fiction where wizards are common enough to be a reasonably frequent hazard for ordinary humanoids. And in any case, balancing the spell in this way reminds me of trying to balance the overpowered paladin with behavior restrictions. What's that old maxim -- something to the effect of "Just because a DM can fix it doesn't mean it isn't broken"?

 

[TheCosmicKid]

A fun modification in certain games, but only in certain games. The day the wizard rolls 5 6s and wipes out dozens of innocent bystanders is going to ruin some games.

That would be a prime example of a situation where a wizard should think twice about whether explosive magic is the right tool for the job. Absolutely a feature, not a bug.

 

[Oofta]

I simply remind people casting fireball that it sets any unattended object on fire that can be set on fire. Like buildings.

Tends to cut down on the spell abuse.

 

[jgsugden]

That would be a prime example of a situation where a wizard should think twice about whether explosive magic is the right tool for the job. Absolutely a feature, not a bug.

The wizard makes the calculation - it would be highly unlikely for the fireball to hurt anyone. He casts it. Highly unlikely happens.

What impact does that have on the game?

I get that this is your intent. However, I think the fallout from it would not lend itself to a good experience in some games. There are some where players would shrug it off, others where it would add to the storyline and make good story opportunities - but in many it would ruin the fun.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

I guess I just don't have a lot of sympathy for a wizard who deploys the arcane equivalent of cluster munitions anywhere near civilians. In real life, we have a term for people like that, and it ain't "hero".