D&D 5E Elven Rogue with advantage and Elven Accuracy. Is diping into fighter to get the Archery Fighting Style overkill?

[Horwath]

Doesn't work. Action surge provide an additional action not turn and SA is once per turn.

you take Ready action with action surge.

Trigger: as soon as my turn ends, I attack "X"

 

[Stoutstien]

you take Ready action with action surge.

Trigger: as soon as my turn ends, I attack "X"

Questionable trigger. it has to be something that the characters aware of not the player so end of turn doesn't really work.
The whole using reaction to get 2 sneak attacks a round isn't necessary a bad idea but there's always a risk that the trigger won't occur. I've never seen it perform nearly as good in-game as people cite it to be.

 

[Horwath]

Questionable trigger. it has to be something that the characters aware of not the player so end of turn doesn't really work.
The whole using reaction to get 2 sneak attacks a round isn't necessary a bad idea but there's always a risk that the trigger won't occur. I've never seen it perform nearly as good in-game as people cite it to be.

that was more of a joke but it works by mechanics

you could say, as soon as any enemy does anything, I shoot "X"

 

[Guest 6801328]

This is actually kind of an interesting question. My baseline assumption is the bonus action to hide, following by advantage and sneak attack on the first shot. I'm going to sim it out later today, but here are my thoughts:

1. You're giving up 3d6 sneak attack damage to dip 5 levels (alternating with 2d6, depending on how many rogue levels you have at any given time)
2. Getting a second attack is most valuable when your first attack misses (in order to still get Sneak Attack). So the 5 level dip, as well as the +2 from archery style, should go up in value as the AC of the target gets higher.
3. The value of the second attack also depends on how many levels you have in rogue. If it's Rogue 1, Fighter/Ranger 5, then the 2nd attack is a higher % of damage than if you're Rogue 15, Fighter/Ranger 5.
4. And, of course, in those situations where you can't hide each turn, and especially when you can't get sneak attack, the 2nd attack shoots up in value. Very hard to predict how much weight to give this in the model, though.

Anyway, I'll try to find time to write some code and graph this out, to see where the lines cross.

 

[Stoutstien]

that was more of a joke but it works by mechanics

you could say, as soon as any enemy does anything, I shoot "X"

Remember that ready action happens after the trigger so if they move out of range/ behind cover you could no longer have a valid target.
If you are dipping fighter for off turn SA you might as well go one more level for Battle Master and use riposte

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yeah, for an assassin build I'd have more specific opinions. Gloomstalker 5 is probably my fav, but Battlemaster 5 is also excellent. In either case you want to take a non-rogue level first, especially fighter, for the armor profs and saves. If you wanted a minimum dip just for the style then fighter is the way to go.

I can’t imagine choosing fighter saves and armor over twice the skills.

 

[Fenris-77]

I can’t imagine choosing fighter saves and armor over twice the skills.

It's only one less skill, you get an additional one when you MC into Rogue. The shield proficiency, for example, is easily worth one less skill to a whole lot of builds.

 

[TwoSix]

And, of course, in those situations where you can't hide each turn, and especially when you can't get sneak attack, the 2nd attack shoots up in value. Very hard to predict how much weight to give this in the model, though.

Maybe I'm running it wrong, but I generally run it that when you attack from stealth, only your first attack would gain advantage; any subsequent shots would not. If that's the case (and I'm not sure what's the RAW rule), it also would devalue the 2nd attack, since it's less accurate and may not trigger sneak attack (depending on whether there's an adjacent ally).

 

[TwoSix]

I can’t imagine choosing fighter saves and armor over twice the skills.

Not sure if you're talking about Fighter vs Ranger, or Fighter 1st versus Rogue 1st here.

 

[Guest 6801328]

that was more of a joke but it works by mechanics

you could say, as soon as any enemy does anything, I shoot "X"

Even though it was a joke, I"ll comment that I wouldn't allow it because it's a trigger on a metagame action. It would be like saying, "I'll attack the first enemy to roll a 12". Your character is unaware of turns. But I also wouldn't allow "as soon as any enemy does anything" because it's not specific enough. (Does the orc's heart beating count?). You need to have a specific trigger AND a clearly defined target, if your trigger action requires a target. So, "If any enemy moves, I'll attack that enemy" or "If the villain casts a spell, I throw the lever." are both valid.