D&D 5E How is Artificer Balanced?

[Cap'n Kobold]

I wish that all their widgets could be the same object. Let me make my crossbow both my Eldritch canon and my arcane firearm. It’s weird as hell to be constantly swapping them around.

You can make your Arcane firearm an Enhanced Spell Focus, but your Eldritch Cannon is an independent creature,, and you don't have to hold it. (Or hold it in your other hand).
Swapping between those and your crossbow could be tricky, but after perhaps the first few levels, you often don't need a crossbow.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

You can make your Arcane firearm an Enhanced Spell Focus, but your Eldritch Cannon is an independent creature,, and you don't have to hold it. (Or hold it in your other hand).
Swapping between those and your crossbow could be tricky, but after perhaps the first few levels, you often don't need a crossbow.

I don’t need an explanation about what the mechanics are. I’m currently playing an artillerist, and DMing for another. Im quite familiar.

The point is that the artillerist should be able to focus on a crossbow, or a wand/staff, or the canon as a handheld weapon. Rather than swapping between. Yes, I can make a Mandalorian style guy who is using all these different objects all the time, but that doesn’t fit most concepts I’ve seen for the subclass.

Now, in these games I mentioned, we have simply houserules that you can activate the canon as part of a ranged weapon (and probably as part of a melee weapon or shield, for gunblade type concepts), and can make a magic weapon into your arcane firearm, because we got tired of them being 3 separate things. But houseruling the problem doesn’t mean we don’t still see the problem, obviously.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

The point is that the artillerist should be able to focus on a crossbow, or a wand/staff, or the canon as a handheld weapon. Rather than swapping between. Yes, I can make a Mandalorian style guy who is using all these different objects all the time, but that doesn’t fit most concepts I’ve seen for the subclass.

What concepts have you seen for the artillerist that use a crossbow regularly? Honest question: The artillerists that I've seen used cantrips and spells for damage rather than weapons after the first few levels.

You're saying that any spellcasting focus the artillerist can use should be usable as your arcane firearm? That seems reasonable, but it was incorporating your eldritch cannon into the crossbow that was confusing me. Is the idea that it would climb on and cling to the crossbow like a sort of animated underslung launcher barrel? Or that you would actually be animating your crossbow/arcane firearm itself into your pet and have it running around independently or perching on your shoulder predator style when you're not actually holding it?

Now, in these games I mentioned, we have simply houserules that you can activate the canon as part of a ranged weapon (and probably as part of a melee weapon or shield, for gunblade type concepts), and can make a magic weapon into your arcane firearm, because we got tired of them being 3 separate things. But houseruling the problem doesn’t mean we don’t still see the problem, obviously.

You removed the bonus action requirement to activate the eldritch cannon? Have you noticed any issues, balance or otherwise?
Do you do the same for the other artificer pets?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

What concepts have you seen for the artillerist that use a crossbow regularly? Honest question: The artillerists that I've seen used cantrips and spells for damage rather than weapons after the first few levels.

Every artilerist I've seen in play, every single one, the concept was focused on using a crossbow. Unfortunately the mechanics don't deliver on that, but instead force splitting focus between a wand, staff, or rod, and a canon.

You're saying that any spellcasting focus the artillerist can use should be usable as your arcane firearm? That seems reasonable, but it was incorporating your eldritch cannon into the crossbow that was confusing me. Is the idea that it would climb on and cling to the crossbow like a sort of animated underslung launcher barrel? Or that you would actually be animating your crossbow/arcane firearm itself into your pet and have it running around independently or perching on your shoulder predator style when you're not actually holding it?

Did you forget that the canon only has legs if it's small, and is a handheld device if it's tiny?

You removed the bonus action requirement to activate the eldritch cannon? Have you noticed any issues, balance or otherwise?
Do you do the same for the other artificer pets?

I did no such thing. Perhaps I should have said "create", but that isn't really accurate since it is surely a physical object already in your possession that you simply imbue with the magic to make it act as your canon.

To clarify, we have made it so that your magical weapon can be your canon. You can simply make your crossbow (or magic sword, if you want a gunblade, or shield if you want a gunshield or a magic shield that protects your allies) into your canon. Meaning you don't need to hold a separate object (for those who aren't interested in the mobile canon option) in order to use it. It's part of your weapon. As is the arcane firearm. So, at level 5, you are shooting firebolt or whatever out of your crossbow and adding 1d8 to damage, and then shooting a force bolt from your crossbow as a bonus action.

We also will probably rule soon that you can treat a single range weapon attack as if you were casting as spell for the purposes of the extra 1d8 damage.

We haven't decided yet if you can put both canons on the same item once you have two, because it hasn't come up, since we've mostly wanted to combine 1 damaging canon with a THP canon, and thematically the THP canon makes the most sense on another item or as a crawly turret critter.

 

[Todd Roybark]

Did you forget that the canon only has legs if it's small, and is a handheld device if it's tiny?

Doc, I don’t believe this is correct. A tiny cannon can be held in a hand, but does not have to be. Either a small or tiny cannon can have legs.

Snippets from the subclass:
can take an action to magically create a Small or Tiny eldritch cannon in an unoccupied space on a horizontal surface within 5 feet of you. A Small eldritch cannon occupies its space, and a Tiny one can be held in one hand.

When you create the cannon, you determine its appearance and whether it has legs.

 

[Zardnaar]

Optimal play is to go pure ranged and then mellee level 10+ assuming you pick up green flame blade or the other SCAG cantrips somehow.

Battlesmith mellee with ranged option via cantrips or crossbow.

Alchemist don't do it to yourself at least if you care about damage.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Every artilerist I've seen in play, every single one, the concept was focused on using a crossbow. Unfortunately the mechanics don't deliver on that, but instead force splitting focus between a wand, staff, or rod, and a canon.

That's like complaining an arcane archer mechanics don't make you effective with two handed sword.

The artillerist doesn't "deliver" on crossbows because it was never designed to use a crossbow, it was designed to pew pew firebolts from it's wand.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Doc, I don’t believe this is correct. A tiny cannon can be held in a hand, but does not have to be. Either a small or tiny cannon can have legs.

Snippets from the subclass:
can take an action to magically create a Small or Tiny eldritch cannon in an unoccupied space on a horizontal surface within 5 feet of you. A Small eldritch cannon occupies its space, and a Tiny one can be held in one hand.

When you create the cannon, you determine its appearance and whether it has legs.

Yes, it says the tiny cannon can be held in your hand, not that it must be. It could be attached to your helmet or your shield, or even held by another character.

Shoulder or wrist mounted are also valid options.

 

[Todd Roybark]

The artillerist doesn't "deliver" on crossbows because it was never designed to use a crossbow, it was designed to pew pew firebolts from it's wand.

That is certainly how the Artillerist I play with approaches the class. High twenties damage on a ranged cantrip at 5th level is fairly nice. The Artillerist keeps an Infused Handaxe, just in case he needs to melee....came in handy when we encountered a Rakshasa.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The artificer I have seen in play tends to supply gadgets to the other party members.