D&D 5E Removing Concentration From Smite Spells, Including Spells like Ensnaring Strike?

[Bacon Bits]

Indeed. And yet, IME, Paladins thirst for an extra attack from their reaction nearly as much as rogues do.

Because Smite is a no-action reaction.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Because Smite is a no-action reaction.

Um...no, I’m pretty sure that isn’t why Paladins like using their reaction to get an extra attack off turn.

 

[GlassJaw]

The more I think about it, the more I like the reaction-casting mechanic. It's so much cleaner design than bonus action & concentration, which is clunky and results in an entire group of spells going unused.

It makes sense that the devs were hesitant to expand on reaction spells at launch and erred on the side of caution. Heck, the entire concentration mechanic was to rein in stacking mechanics. But hey, games and designs evolve, and opening up concentration has consistently been up for discussion.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I'd go for it not taking an action, before I'd have it use a reaction, I think.

 

[Xeviat]

Has anyone mentioned that the existing Divine Smite can be used on an opportunity attack that hits, so they already can dump multiple spell slots through using actions and reactions.

 

[Andras]

Taking Concentration off smite spells would be awesome as I can still use Spirit Shroud and spam Thunderous Smite too. UA SpiritShd is my goto damage enhancer for my Paladin. Having SS up is like a free smite every hit.

I see they have reduced the higher level enhancement to 1d8/2 levels, which I can honestly say I was expecting. +4d8 per hit for my 6th level slot gave me the tinglies. +2d8 per hit for a 5th level slot is a fair trade since it lasts a minute and only uses a BA to kick off.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

So, it's an even split between a hard no and the two yes options.

I wonder if I make a new thread that makes it more clear that this is for the benefit of rangers, mostly...

Also, does the game have any spells currently that don't cost an action to cast?

I also have ideas for new smite style spells, and also for counterspell variants that are less problematic than counterspell.

for instance, a spell that is basically like Detect Magic, but tells you the level and school of any spell being cast before the spell is resolved, and the spell can be ended to hurt the enemy caster and potentially interrupt their spell?

 

[squibbles]

I voted yes, but not as described.

Divine smite is generally considerably more effective damage than a Smite spell since it is immediate (doesn't require set-up), allows better nova (can be put on every attack). It also combines no-risk with high reward and little opportunity cost. (Never risk losing the spell slot without getting it off, can take advantage of critical hits, and you can maintain your defensive spells on you and your allies.) That is why Divine Smite outshadows the smite spells in most situations.

This is the thing to keep in mind about paladin divine smites: they are a bad use of spell slots as compared to, say, bless but are an AMAZING optimization of the action economy.

Smite spells, on the other hand, are a situational use of spell slots but an awful optimization of the action economy.

I think the best way to fix the smite spells would be to change their casting time to a reaction, which you can use when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack. That way they still come at a slight opportunity cost compared to Divine Smite, but not nearly as much of one. It also saves you from having to remember to set the smite spell up before the attack.

those spells should be reactions.
You trigger it when you hit.

I'm in general agreement.

If it were up to me, I'd give all the smite spells--including ensnaring strike, hail of thorns, etc.--a cast time of special; when you hit with an attack and have not cast any other spell during the round. They could require a reaction or not, I don't think reaction use particularly matters if there is a 1 spell/round limitation.

The game has a rule to limit the amount of spell slots you use on your turn (when you cast a spell as a bonus action, you can't cast a levelled spell as an action), so it seems weird that you can burn through multiple spell slots a round with a smite spell and a bunch of smites on hits.

Divine smite would then need to become an always prepared paladin spell with the same cast time.