D&D 5E Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade Nerfed in TCoE

[ph0rk]

I would too, doing otherwise is one of the problems with 5e has when it comes to magic where too often anyplace it could really shine needs to be walled off or designed against.

Well, if that's open then twinning GFB is open and then (in the old days) a sorcerer could have twinned and then quickened three GFBs to melt a pair of targets.

I think removing the ability to twin BB (and GFB) is the main reason for this wording, also making them not work with shadow blade.

 

[cbwjm]

I think removing shadowblade from the cantrips is also a mistake that I will correct by allowing it to work. I've been having conversations on Reddit about it, I'd allow the cantrips to work with a tree branch used as a club if that's what someone had.

Actually, the longer 5e sticks around, the more I find rules that I just flat out ignore via houserules. I used houserules in every edition, but I'm wondering if 5e is getting more of them or I just think it is because that's the edition I'm playing now.

 

[ph0rk]

I think removing shadowblade from the cantrips is also a mistake that I will correct by allowing it to work. I've been having conversations on Reddit about it, I'd allow the cantrips to work with a tree branch used as a club if that's what someone had.

It's a really strong spell, and a bladesinger with war caster could, conceivably get an opportunity attack that deals 7d8+mod damage, at the cost of no resources.

 

[cbwjm]

It's a really strong spell, and a bladesinger with war caster could, conceivably get an opportunity attack that deals 7d8+mod damage, at the cost of no resources.

I'm fine with that. The players are heroes, I'm happy to let them shine in this situations.

 

[ph0rk]

I'm fine with that. The players are heroes, I'm happy to let them shine in this situations.

Nothing wrong with letting players shine, but what can a barbarian or battlemaster do that can compare to that? It's a unique interaction with bladesingers and how easily they can upcast shadowblade.

Mind you, shadow blade alone without BB is still an opportunity attack for 4d8+mod.

Come to think of it, this becomes a nice thing for bards to do, too. Full caster shadow blade + a SCAGtrip is a ton of damage.

Are full casters so lacking in cool things that they need this, too?

 

[Don Durito]

Really all extra attack classes should be dealing the extra cantrip damage on their opportunity attacks.

So, the real issue is that basic opportunity attacks don't scale, not that cantrips are too good as opportunity attacks.

Always better to fix the real problems.

 

[tetrasodium]

Well, if that's open then twinning GFB is open and then (in the old days) a sorcerer could have twinned and then quickened three GFBs to melt a pair of targets.

I think removing the ability to twin BB (and GFB) is the main reason for this wording, also making them not work with shadow blade.

I'm on the fence with how I feel about GFB/BB being twin spelled. TCoE appears to have a lot of new caster focused magic items slated for inclusion.depending on how they affect problems like this or what new doors they open for casters I might be all for letting a sorc twin them & might even mention it if they don't notice... especially if it stops every sorcerer in creation from taking 2 levels in warlock for agonizing eldritch blast & either devils sight or repelling blast.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Well, quite a bit has happened since I last posted in this thread.

So, JC came out with another batch of tweets to further "clarify" what his RAI for the RAW is. Now, War Caster still works with these spells (except if you want to target two people with GFB), you can still use a Pact Weapon for these spells, but the spells unfortunately no longer work with shadow blade or natural weapons for some unknown reason.

I don't think that it is OP to allow a lizardfolk to use their bite with GFB, IMO, that is awesome and should be allowed. I don't think it's OP to allow a sorcerer to use their limited resource pool to twin these spells. I don't think it's OP to let a level 11 Eldritch Knight/level 6 Bladesinger to attack twice and use a bonus action to cast GFB/BB.

(Another side-note, if my player asked me if I would allow Thirsting Blade to work like the new Bladesinger's Extra Attack, I 100% would allow that, but restricting it to only attacking one creature so they can't do Eldritch Blast and an attack.)

 

[cbwjm]

Nothing wrong with letting players shine, but what can a barbarian or battlemaster do that can compare to that? It's a unique interaction with bladesingers and how easily they can upcast shadowblade.

Mind you, shadow blade alone without BB is still an opportunity attack for 4d8+mod.

Come to think of it, this becomes a nice thing for bards to do, too. Full caster shadow blade + a SCAGtrip is a ton of damage.

Are full casters so lacking in cool things that they need this, too?

It's not that they're lacking, it's more a case of why limit it? I don't see a good reason to.

 

[ph0rk]

It's not that they're lacking, it's more a case of why limit it? I don't see a good reason to.

Other than the spell text? That seems like a pretty good reason.

I don't think bladesingers and bards should have access to the same on-tap damage from an opportunity attack that rogues do.