D&D 5E Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade Nerfed in TCoE

[cbwjm]

I would if I was playing a rogue.



One cantrip and one spell - vs the rogue's class choice - I don't think that's a fair comparison unless you take "screw martials" as a valid starting point.

If it was that big a deal, I'd recommend playing something other than rogue.

 

[ph0rk]

If it was that big a deal, I'd recommend playing something other than rogue.

That’s expecting a rather unrealistic game level of system mastery from the player, particularly when being eclipsed in one of their chief in-combat tricks in this way by a caster isn’t really apparent until late Tier 2.

 

[Don Durito]

I phrased it that way because there have been a couple people who keep claiming short rest classes run dry too often to dismiss problems that stem from the encouraged to abuse short rests wording. I too tend to see players doing similar to mass nova & rest every couple fights when not on a timer. If someone doesn't want to take a short rest because some spell/ability/etc is on the clock &it would cost them there is almost nothing they can say to counter the power short rest classes get from that rest.

I think there's probably a sense of "why take just a short rest when we could take a long one?"

 

[Mistwell]

I am pleased with the clarification on these two cantrips and warcaster. That clarification addresses most of my concerns with these changes.

 

[NotAYakk]

I think that's to shut down shadow blade +gfb+sorcerer combo.

Better at gishing than the bladesinger.

Assuming you can use GFB with SB:
DW Bladesinger gets 2 Shadowblade, 1 Normal, and 1 GFB augment
Sorcerer gets 2 Shadowblade and 2 GFB augments for 2 SP/round.
If you cannot (and we assume quicken works fine with GFB)
DW Bladesinger gets 1 Shadow Blade, 1 GFB augment, and 2 Normal attacks.
Sorcerer gets 1 SB, 1 Normal, and 1 GFB augment, or 2 Normal and 2 GFB augments for 2 SP/round.

 

[cbwjm]

That’s expecting a rather unrealistic game level of system mastery from the player, particularly when being eclipsed in one of their chief in-combat tricks in this way by a caster isn’t really apparent until late Tier 2.

Maybe, but again, I don't see this as an issue. Besides, the rogue has more going for it than sneak attack damage. The caster might not even be able to maintain shadow blade, especially if they have other concentration effects they want to keep up or even just other spells they need to cast. Rogue doesn't have this issue. If I had a rogue player who was complaining about it, I'd suggest they reroll as something else. More likely though, they aren't complaining because they wanted to play a rogue and they're having fun playing one.

 

[tetrasodium]

Maybe, but again, I don't see this as an issue. Besides, the rogue has more going for it than sneak attack damage. The caster might not even be able to maintain shadow blade, especially if they have other concentration effects they want to keep up or even just other spells they need to cast. Rogue doesn't have this issue. If I had a rogue player who was complaining about it, I'd suggest they reroll as something else. More likely though, they aren't complaining because they wanted to play a rogue and they're having fun playing one.

Luckily for the rogue there is an option other than reroll, a whole lot of them in fact. Unfortunately those sort of solutions aren't really an option for a caster at this point.

 

[jmartkdr2]

That’s expecting a rather unrealistic game level of system mastery from the player, particularly when being eclipsed in one of their chief in-combat tricks in this way by a caster isn’t really apparent until late Tier 2.

Whenever I've run the numbers, shadow blade + booming blade is comparable to sneak attack with a rapier, as in roughly the same damage.

(short version: SB + BB maxes out at 5d8+3d8 + ability mod, at 17th level. Which is 8d8+5 or roughly 41 per hit. Sneak attack at 17th is 1d8+9d6+dex, or roughly 41 per hit. But sneak attack gets another bump at 19th, and can benefit from magic weapons. SB + BB only pulls ahead at 5th level if cast as a 3rd level spell.)

Both can also be set up for somewhat reliable off-turn attacks, but I'm not sure either is better at it. You need feats, anyways.

But the rogue doesn't need to do anything special for that to happen - it's just how the class works. They can go beyond that. SB + BB matches base rogue with some system mastery, and makes up the difference by also having other spells available.

 

[cbwjm]

Luckily for the rogue there is an option other than reroll, a whole lot of them in fact. Unfortunately those sort of solutions aren't really an option for a caster at this point.

First weapon I saw was Acheron Blade. Wasn't sure what it did but that is a cool name.

 

[Leatherhead]

If you are concerned about Rogue damage potential: This change also prevents Arcane Tricksters from using Shadow Blade and Booming Blade together.