D&D 5E Ideas for Initiative house rules

[Warpiglet-7]

I am now using side initiative. It is a lot faster and all the players are more active and pay more attention. There is no waiting for my turn hassle. Something can always happen. So far, bith of my groups really like it.

I was just thinking about this.

I was also thinking that if it is a side that loses initiative, it could also have some narrative correlate.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Yeah. This is the speed factor that actually matters.

When people make daggers faster than Greatswords it just gets ludicrous.

That depends. Is the person with the dagger standing 6 feet away at the tip of the greatsword? Or has he already closed in to where he can stab with the dagger? Someone who can't even get close enough to make an attack should not even get that option til they can close.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

I like standard, simple, dumb 5e initiative by RAW. I'm sure there are any number of clever ways to introduce new systems to make it simulate X, Y, or Z better but it's just not a part of the game where I see the value in additional complexity or have any real qualms. You roll for what order you take turns in and then you take them in that order. No version of turn based combat is going to feel "realistic" or "not gamey" to me, so I'd rather just accept the basic gaminess of it and invest the added complexity that might go into alternative initiative into more satisfying places.

 

[Vaslov]

I am not a fan of the standard 5e initiative. Takes time to setup the initiative having everyone roll just to result in a stale round robin of turns across everyone. Of the various replacements I have tried two of them stand out.

SotDL - No roll. Players win. Act on a fast turn or slow turn. Spares the time spent of rolling and cataloging who goes when. Everyone stays pretty invested so they can plan out actions together. Gets the "prep for combat" stage out of the game and get to those juicy "do I succeed" rolls as soon as possible.

Feng Shui 2 - When I want something crunchier on the rule side this flavor tends to work for me. There is rolled initiative, but each type of action has a point cost that changes individual initiative. For example, you have an initiative of 14. To swing of sword costs 3 points so your next aciton is on a 11. etc. This spend to act includes interrupts, which are sort of like 5e reactions, so there is a clear cost to using a reaction in that your next action is even further away. This dynamic keeps everyone on their toes and has them spending time working out if the big point cost action is worth the time until they can act next.

 

[Lidgar]

I like the way Mongoose Traveller does initiative.

To translate to 5e, I’d do d20+DEX or INT or WIS (creature’s choice). Then can add skill bonus for special circumstances (in Traveller it is the Tactics skill). So as Morrus suggests, add your skill proficiency bonus (stealth, deception, insight, perception) when circumstances warrant it.

 

[GMMichael]

Initiative house rule: initiative rolls determine whose actions happen first, but there are no turns. Each character gets his allotment for the round - what he would normally get to do on his turn - but other characters can react with their own actions. When characters want to act at the same time, initiative counts determine who goes first. So big, bad orc starts with a big swing, but party fighter wants to attack first as well. Resolve the two attacks in order of initiative scores. Party rogue wants to move to flank the orc, no one feels the need to intervene, so no one else acts. The rogue can sneak attack anyone who a) has a lower initiative score, or b) has used her movement for the round.

That depends. Is the person with the dagger standing 6 feet away at the tip of the greatsword? Or has he already closed in to where he can stab with the dagger? Someone who can't even get close enough to make an attack should not even get that option til they can close.

Someone with a decent shield could get close enough to make an attack...

Really though - a dagger being a faster attack makes just as much sense as a dagger being as lethal as a greatsword. Ask these guys how they feel about weapon speeds:

 

[Helldritch]

I was just thinking about this.

I was also thinking that if it is a side that loses initiative, it could also have some narrative correlate.

We roll every round. Because it is only two sides, it goes very fast. Yes, with luck, it means that sometimes monsters get to act twice in row (and so does the PCs) but it strangely removed the "whack a mole" quite a bit exactly because letting a PC go down might result in a quick death. Combat healing is now a good thing to have. It is no longer considered an inferior strategy.

So far, we only saw positive, well almost. The downside is that initiative related powers are nullified. Things such as alertness and intel bonuses to initiative are made irrelevant in group side initiative. We'll figure something for these special cases. What we do foe the moment is to make these work when these characters are alone. But when in group... we're still thinking about a compromise.

 

[Blue]

The idea of using things like insight to see if someone is about to move to violence and the like I'm cool with.

However, some of the other ideas here hit into three concepts that do not work well with 5e as written. To some point these can be addressed by rule changes.

5e uses the concept of "until your next turn" as shorthand for "affects each target for one action". If you change initiative by round, this gets thrown off. Some can be affected for for multiple turns (say going after in one round and before in the next), other might suffer no effects at all (going before in one round and after in the next).

Side initiative can lead to really overwhelming focus fire. Because there's no repositioning between different moves or chance to heal, it really leads to people dropping with less chance to be tactical. Neither of those are positive enjoyment factors for players.

Lastly choosing order among players, such as popcorn, really changes the value of some abilities. For example, it makes a mockery of getting dropped to zero - when you can make sure you will never lose an action because you will always get healed before it's your initiative, but not to far in advance you might drop again, it exasperates the "pop-up healing" issues tenfold. Other things like pushing a foe prone could mean that your then have a bunch of that side able to attack with advantage without any chance of the target getting a move to get up. Heck, do it late in a round and you can have all of the melee members of your party go twice - once this round and then at the top of next round - without any chance for the foe to get up. And of course the other way works with intelligent foes.

 

[aco175]

Would having a power that bumped you initiative up or caused bad guys to bump down be good or just another complexity?

I was thinking that the fighter could spring this in the middle of a combat and jump 5 or 10 in the order and getting a chance to act before the bad guy could get a chance at him. Maybe the rogue really wants to go first and sneak attack the BBEG, or the mage drops the bad guy initiative down to after his turn and allows him to move back.

Problem may be that I tend to have group of bad guys go on the same turn where all 8 goblins act on a 15 and moving one out of turn may add more problems. I guess having things reset after that one turn may help.

 

[Zaukrie]

Would having a power that bumped you initiative up or caused bad guys to bump down be good or just another complexity?

I was thinking that the fighter could spring this in the middle of a combat and jump 5 or 10 in the order and getting a chance to act before the bad guy could get a chance at him. Maybe the rogue really wants to go first and sneak attack the BBEG, or the mage drops the bad guy initiative down to after his turn and allows him to move back.

Problem may be that I tend to have group of bad guys go on the same turn where all 8 goblins act on a 15 and moving one out of turn may add more problems. I guess having things reset after that one turn may help.

I have been considering a house action that allows you to move up in order....at the cost of disadvantage and worse AC. Basically, a wild swing type thing. I haven't implemented it yet, but it is on the list of considerations. You may also drop to later in the next round? Not sure how it would work, but it would be one time, not for the rest of the encoutner.

You attack before you see a clear opening (which is all an attack is in DnD, the one time you have a clear opening), and swing wildly at your foe in an attempt to kill them before they kill you.