D&D 5E (2014) Spell Versatility is GONE. Rejoice!

[Hohige]

The New Aberrant Sorceror dominates the game.
The simply and old Dragon Sorcerer is unbeatiable on combat. A level 6 Sorcerer could one shot anything at that level
Its enough for a Strong Mutant.

 

[Xeviat]

Wizards can prepare 25 spells per day, change them out every day, and know like 43 spells at 20th level without adding more via finding scrolls. Plus they have 2 1st or 2nd level spells at-will and a 3rd level spell they don't need to prep.

Clerics can prep 25 spells a day and have an extra 10 they always have prepped.

Letting sorcerers change out the 15 or so they know isn't going to break the bank.

 

[MoonSong]

Bards don't get magical secrets until level 10. And when they do get this feature, the spells do count against their spells known. So a level 10 bard still only has 1 more spell-known than a sorcerer.

(This excludes the Lore Bard, which gets 2 spells known at 6th-level without taking their spells known).

How we say it in my mother tongue, "ni tú, ni yo". Bards start with four spells (versus sorcerer's 2), and the difference remains constant for the first 9 levels, it then jumps one ahead at tenth because bards learn two spells at once. Only Divine Souls get to start with one extra spell known, and it is a set spell -that you can retrain later-. (Again, I don't have Tasha's yet, so I don't know how the new subclasses compare)

Level	Sorcerer baseline	Bard baseline	Lore Bard	Divine Soul/Sorcerer w magic initiate
1	2	4	4	3
2	3	5	5	4
3	4	6	6	5
4	5	7	7	6
5	6	8	8	7
6	7	9	10	8
7	8	10	11	9
8	9	11	12	10
9	10	12	13	11
10	11	14	15	12

 

[Asisreo]

How we say it in my mother tongue, "ni tú, ni yo". Bards start with four spells (versus sorcerer's 2), and the difference remains constant for the first 9 levels, it then jumps one ahead at tenth because bards learn two spells at once.

They have a condensed wizard spell list and a way to recover spell slots in a similar, yet faster version while having a charisma spellcasting ability and the same number of spells known as a bard up until level 10 (include cantrips).

I've included cantrips in my analysis since they are still spells and are still pretty useful, especially during these earlier stages of gameplay.

The bard gets 4 spells known and 2 cantrips. A total of 6 spells.

A sorcerer gets 2 spells and 4 cantrips. A total of 6 spells.

This pattern continues until level 10 when they get a new metamagic while the bard gets an extra spell known and magical secret.

 

[Chaosmancer]

They have a few unique aspects to them. Despite having the 1d6 HD of a wizard, they also have constitution saves which is something they're incentivized to put good stats into more than a wizard. They also have metamagic, which allows them to manipulate their spells in clear ways.

Honestly, I feel like if this is the best you can say about the sorcerer, then it is clear that the sorcerer is failing to be unique. "I have con saves" shouldn't even be in the discussion. We never really talk about saving throws for any other class, but Sorcerer having Con Saves is seen as one of their defining features. Wizard's get Wisdom saves to protect them from mind-control, fear, and paralyzation magic.

And Metamagic, like doctorbadwolf says, really does not allow the Sorcerer to do the one thing that everyone says it should do. It does not allow you to cast the spells in new and unique ways. A Fireball is a fireball is a fireball, whether I use Distant, Careful, Subtle, Quickened, or Empowered. It is still a fireball and still fulfills the role of a fireball. A sorcerer cannot use that fireball to do something that is not fireball.

 

[Charlaquin]

I heard rumbling of a beta Dragon Sorcerer in the playtests that gained more and more draconic aspects as they spent sorcery points, but that whole concept was scrapped at the last possible minute to give us the Sorcerer we ended up with.

I think they just went with too 'safe' a design for the Sorcerer and as a result the Wizard also suffered from that lack of differentiation. I find the Wizard terribly boring, but it's also that familiar design Wizard fans want, so, really, the Sorcerer is the one that should have been overhauled.

Well, the sorcerer’s defining feature in this edition was always supposed to be sorcery points. And in theory that could be enough to set them apart from wizards, the problem is that they didn’t really do anything interesting with that design space. Though the playtest sorcerer we saw only went up to 5th level, its base class features looked really damn similar to the class we ended up getting. Sorcery Points were called Willpower, but other than that it was the same basic structure. Full caster, learned spells, Flexible Casting, Metamagic, all basically the same as what we have in the PHB, if a bit less refined.

All the cool “you slowly turn into a dragon as your Willpower runs out” stuff came from the draconic bloodline subclass. That just happened to be the only subclass in the playtest. In theory, if the “get more buffs the lower your Willpower pool is” concept had polled better, I would assume other sorcerer subclasses would have done similar things. Maybe the chance of a Wild Magic Surge would have increased as your Willpower depleted, for example.

Point is, they designed the class around the idea of a spell point pool, which you spend to enhance your magic, and then your subclass features key off how many points are left in the pool. But since that idea (or at least the execution of it) proved unpopular, and the open playtest was already nearing its end, they kept the spell points and Metamagic but got rid of any other features that interacted with the points, hamstringing the design.

 

[Charlaquin]

I had mixed feelings on that preview,

However, work on the sorcerer stopped not because of the preview sorcerer, but rather because at the time the brand new Neovancian casting was previewed in the cleric, and wizard players wanted it. So they somehow had to stop working on the sorcerer until wizard was "done right". Then they had the "great" idea of merging everything under Mage and wasted even more development time.

That is not how I remember it happening. I’m pretty sure Wizards had neovancian casting from packet 1. The sorcerer didn’t show up in the public playtest at all until pretty late in the game, same packet that the Warlock first showed up in IIRC.

EDIT: Also, the playtest Warlock looked very similar to the warlock we got, but instead of their spell slots just working differently than everyone else’s for some reason, they didn’t get spell slots at all. They could cast rituals, and they got two “Boons” which recovered on a short rest, and they could spend these Boons to cast Warlock spells and activate some Invocations. Pretty much exactly like warlock spell slots, but less confusing and for the life of me I can’t imagine why they changed it to warlocks just having their own special spell slots that don’t work like anyone else’s spell slots do. Sorry, off topic, I just remembered that and to rant about it.

 

[Asisreo]

Honestly, I feel like if this is the best you can say about the sorcerer, then it is clear that the sorcerer is failing to be unique. "I have con saves" shouldn't even be in the discussion. We never really talk about saving throws for any other class, but Sorcerer having Con Saves is seen as one of their defining features. Wizard's get Wisdom saves to protect them from mind-control, fear, and paralyzation magic.

Con saves are important on spellcasters because they determine concentration. Sorcerers are the only spellcasting class with Con saves so they should definitely be mentioned. The ability to succeed on your concentration where another spellcaster may have failed is pretty important.

And Metamagic, like doctorbadwolf says, really does not allow the Sorcerer to do the one thing that everyone says it should do. It does not allow you to cast the spells in new and unique ways. A Fireball is a fireball is a fireball, whether I use Distant, Careful, Subtle, Quickened, or Empowered. It is still a fireball and still fulfills the role of a fireball. A sorcerer cannot use that fireball to do something that is not fireball.

Its all about efficacy and tactics.

Metamagics were never about having a spell be not that spell. What it does is open the possibilities of the spell.

Fireball is probably the worse example. It's just condensed damage. The only metamagic you can use that isn't a pure damage boost is distant, careful, and subtle. But their use with fireball in particular is very niche.

Take invisibility. 1 hour of being invisible for a 2nd-level slot.

Well, if you twin it, you've effectively upcasted it. If you need to be invisible for more than an hour, you can extend it and save yourself a whole 'nother spell slot and not outting yourself with verbal casting with only 1 sorcery point. You can quicken it in combat and instantly hide.

Metamagic is not added to make it feel like your spells known list has increased or changed by giving your sorcerer effectively "new spells." Metamagic is used to enhance your spells to push them further beyond what a wizard could do.

 

[Asisreo]

EDIT: Also, the playtest Warlock looked very similar to the warlock we got, but instead of their spell slots just working differently than everyone else’s for some reason, they didn’t get spell slots at all. They could cast rituals, and they got two “Boons” which recovered on a short rest, and they could spend these Boons to cast Warlock spells and activate some Invocations. Pretty much exactly like warlock spell slots, but less confusing and for the life of me I can’t imagine why they changed it to warlocks just having their own special spell slots that don’t work like anyone else’s spell slots do. Sorry, off topic, I just remembered that and to rant about it.

I imagine "boons" are one of those necessities in a warlock class, so they were trying to incorporate them.

Effectively, they were spell slots but could also have access to features that weren't necessarily spells. Perhaps being able to summon a familiar that could be an Imp, Pixie, or Psuedodragon. Or being able to have a weapon attach onto you for a set amount of time and have it summonable with proficiency in it. Or hex someone and give them a boost to damage and disadvantage on ability checks.

Some options were probably more popular than others so they either had them as a boon that's always on or a spell you can use your slots for.

The probably kept spell slots for simplicity and ease of access. This way, they don't have to have a whole other section on "Pact Magic Magic Packets" which are actually just how they'd work now.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Con saves are important on spellcasters because they determine concentration. Sorcerers are the only spellcasting class with Con saves so they should definitely be mentioned. The ability to succeed on your concentration where another spellcaster may have failed is pretty important.

The ability not to be mind controlled and taken out of the fight when the other caster might have been is also important. But we never talk about the classes that get wisdom saves until someone brings it up as a counter to the discussion always focusing on Sorcerer Con saves.

How many times has someone said that you should play a Wizard, Cleric or Druid because they have good Wisdom saves?

Compare that to how many times people say that one of the most powerful features of the Sorcerer is their Constitution saves, something completely passive, that they can't choose to utilize, and in the best situations, they never use in the first place.

Its all about efficacy and tactics.

Metamagics were never about having a spell be not that spell. What it does is open the possibilities of the spell.

Fireball is probably the worse example. It's just condensed damage. The only metamagic you can use that isn't a pure damage boost is distant, careful, and subtle. But their use with fireball in particular is very niche.

Take invisibility. 1 hour of being invisible for a 2nd-level slot.

Well, if you twin it, you've effectively upcasted it. If you need to be invisible for more than an hour, you can extend it and save yourself a whole 'nother spell slot and not outting yourself with verbal casting with only 1 sorcery point. You can quicken it in combat and instantly hide.

Metamagic is not added to make it feel like your spells known list has increased or changed by giving your sorcerer effectively "new spells." Metamagic is used to enhance your spells to push them further beyond what a wizard could do.

And how many times do you need to be invisible for more than an hour, and you know that when you cast the spell? What good is casting it in combat and hiding? Especially on a class that likely does not have the greatest stealth.

And you know, I think you might be able to give me a specific example that fits both of those. "Well what about when...", but think about this... how often do those things happen? Does it happen so often that the wizard needs a second hour of invisibility (and not three, four or more) that is becomes a common problem with the spell?

Not in my experience. In my experience, that is a niche problem. So, you have niche answers to niche problems. And that is your defining design choice, having niche answers to niche problems... which would make your design supposed to be the most versatile.

Except the sorcerer can't be versatile, if they are the one who has the answer to the niche problem, then they are stepping on the wizard's toes.


And this is the constant refrain I see in these debates.

"But you can twin Polymorph and get two Giant Apes, wizards can only get one"

"But you can twin Haste and get two allies hasted, wizards can only get one."

"But you can careful spell hypnotic pattern and set it on top of your allies without hurthing them, and wizards have to place it in a way that doesn't include their allies"


And when you go to look at the Wizard discussions, what do you see?

"With polymorph you can turn an injured fighter into a giant ape. Best healing spell in the game and you can devastate encounters"

"Put haste on the Fighter or Barbarian, and watch them go to town. It is a great way to devastate encounters."

"Hypnotic Pattern can control an entire enemy. Instant win if they all fail their saves, and still turns the tide completely in your favor."


So, no one is saying that they need these spells to be doubled or to be cast more recklessly. These are top tier spells already that alter the flow of combat. I can attest as a Warlock who has used Haste and Hypnotic Pattern extensively. I've never once felt like I wished I was a sorcerer so I could use metamagic on those spells. And we had a bard using Polymorph constantly, and again, no one was watching that going "man, if only we had a sorcerer to make this better" we were going "Oh yeah, we are going to win this fight now. This changes everything."

So, the sorcerer gets a passive benefit that people only talk about because they get little else worth talking about, and the ability to maybe try and eke out niche benefits or get diminishing returns on the great spells other classes are using.