D&D 5E Ideas for Initiative house rules

[Redwizard007]

I'm curious about the reasoning behind Int modifier to initiative, as suggested by multiple posters. What about the Intelligence stat makes you feel that it should be impactful here?

 

[Zaukrie]

I'm curious about the reasoning behind Int modifier to initiative, as suggested by multiple posters. What about the Intelligence stat makes you feel that it should be impactful here?

You're smart, and you can predict what happens next in battle. Basically, why is SPEED of muscle movement more important than either experience (level or wisdom) or intelligence (knowing/predicting things, observing things)? Frankly, I think level or wisdom (training) is more important than muscle speed.

 

[Einlanzer0]

You're smart, and you can predict what happens next in battle. Basically, why is SPEED of muscle movement more important than either experience (level or wisdom) or intelligence (knowing/predicting things, observing things)? Frankly, I think level or wisdom (training) is more important than muscle speed.

It does make sense actually but the label "Initiative" doesn't. I think it makes a lot more sense if you do a simple re-fluffing of Initiative into something like Tactics.

 

[Redwizard007]

You're smart, and you can predict what happens next in battle. Basically, why is SPEED of muscle movement more important than either experience (level or wisdom) or intelligence (knowing/predicting things, observing things)? Frankly, I think level or wisdom (training) is more important than muscle speed.

Got it.

Not a fan for 5e, but I understand the reasoning. IME intelligence actually hinders acting quickly, thats why you drill until you react without thought, but maybe if you were executing a plan.

 

[Einlanzer0]

Got it.

Not a fan for 5e, but I understand the reasoning. IME intelligence actually hinders acting quickly, thats why you drill until you react without thought, but maybe if you were executing a plan.

Conceptually, I agree with this, which is why I keep Initiative with Dex. There's an argument for Wisdom, but as mentioned above that's partially filled by surprise rounds. If you want it to be with Int, I'm a fan of retheming it away from Initiative and toward something like Tactics.

My belief is not that Dex is too overloaded, but that other stats are too shallow. This is pretty easy to address, actually:
Weapons have minimum strength requirements like armor does. No 8 Str Longbowmen in my games.
Con doesn't need anything
Intelligence of 13 or higher grants a bonus proficiency. Int checks also replace the Hero Point system, granting situational advantage/disadvantage.
Wisdom and Charisma are both used for Sanity/madness, which are more common in my games
Charisma of 13 or higher grants expertise on a social skill of your choice.

 

[Don Durito]

Initiative house rule: initiative rolls determine whose actions happen first, but there are no turns. Each character gets his allotment for the round - what he would normally get to do on his turn - but other characters can react with their own actions. When characters want to act at the same time, initiative counts determine who goes first. So big, bad orc starts with a big swing, but party fighter wants to attack first as well. Resolve the two attacks in order of initiative scores. Party rogue wants to move to flank the orc, no one feels the need to intervene, so no one else acts. The rogue can sneak attack anyone who a) has a lower initiative score, or b) has used her movement for the round.


Someone with a decent shield could get close enough to make an attack...

Really though - a dagger being a faster attack makes just as much sense as a dagger being as lethal as a greatsword. Ask these guys how they feel about weapon speeds:

As I say often when this comes up, ignoring that a Greatsword or spear is faster than a dagger in all practical terms for simplicity's sake is fine (as is conversely ignoring the fact that a dagger is much better when you're actually inside the guard - a level of detail that D&D has never attempted to model).

But when adding complexity means doing so in a direction that is the opposite of reality - that's when I balk. What is the point of it then? To confuse any players you have who actually know anything about how weapons work?

 

[Don Durito]

You're smart, and you can predict what happens next in battle. Basically, why is SPEED of muscle movement more important than either experience (level or wisdom) or intelligence (knowing/predicting things, observing things)? Frankly, I think level or wisdom (training) is more important than muscle speed.

I'd be wary here. One of the problems in making Intelligence better is that if you don't make it good enough (or change the way characters are built) you end up hurting those pcs more that can't really afford to put points into intelligence (such as Barbarians and Paladins).

Thematically it doesn't hurt the Barbarian too much under the point buy system if he can never have a high Intelligence if we interpret it as being due to being uneducated. But if he's also now slow? It's also themetically inappropriate - Barbarians have class feature's to reflect the fact that they're anything but slow to react.

 

[Zaukrie]

I'd be wary here. One of the problems in making Intelligence better is that if you don't make it good enough (or change the way characters are built) you end up hurting those pcs more that can't really afford to put points into intelligence (such as Barbarians and Paladins).

Thematically it doesn't hurt the Barbarian too much under the point buy system if he can never have a high Intelligence if we interpret it as being due to being uneducated. But if he's also now slow? It's also themetically inappropriate - Barbarians have class feature's to reflect the fact that they're anything but slow to react.

Meh, I was merely answering the question of why Int might matter, not saying it SHOULD matter.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I'm curious about the reasoning behind Int modifier to initiative, as suggested by multiple posters. What about the Intelligence stat makes you feel that it should be impactful here?

I think Int should be part of it, but not as a straight substitute for Dex. I like how other systems have sub-stats for things like Initiative or Luck or other stuff. Systems where you take two of the main stats and take the average of the two to make the sub-stat. So Initiative could be Int and Dex added together, then divided by 2. And then finding the modifier based on that.

 

[Redwizard007]

I think Int should be part of it, but not as a straight substitute for Dex. I like how other systems have sub-stats for things like Initiative or Luck or other stuff. Systems where you take two of the main stats and take the average of the two to make the sub-stat. So Initiative could be Int and Dex added together, then divided by 2. And then finding the modifier based on that.

Now, I will be the first to say "play the way you like," but for me, Int has never been in any way associated with reaction times. If I wanted to tie a mental stat to initiative it would be Wis. That being said, a feat or class ability that added Int to initiative, particularly one that flavored it as the result of planning, would be entirely appropriate.