D&D 5E Spell Versatility is GONE. Rejoice!

[Mistwell]

I'd have Warlocks stay Charisma casters, as it makes sense for a class based around making pacts with otherworldly entities to need to be persuasive and have a smooth tongue.

I always thought Warlocks should be Intelligence casters.

I mean, you know it was those smart kids in school who were picked on by the jocks who would find some dusty tome that tells them how to make a pact with a higher power to gain power themselves! Charisma...ha!

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Interesting, I always thought of Wizards as that type. In my imagination, Warlocks are rarely ever striving for their power, its all incidental or even accidental.

Accidental and incidental? I mean I can see that as a possible story for a warlock, but I can’t imagine that as the primary story of the class.

edit: also wizards are scholars in their 5e lore, academics. Warlocks are like a character Indiana Jones would run into, delving into things that a Wizard might spend decades studying before touching, but the Warlock hacks a ritual to bind its power and make it their own. The warlock is a caster of forbidden magic. The name itself speaks to transgression.

 

[cbwjm]

Eh, I get that but I disagree. I think the 5e warlock missed some opportunities, but either way I see the warlock as a delver into secrets, which speaks to Int.

I see a couple of different warlocks. The Charisma pact maker, and the intelligent occultist who doesn't make a pact but, like you suggest, delves into forbidden secrets. I'd like to make the occultist use regular spellcasting and have a spellbook similar to the wizard but using the warlock spell list.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I see a couple of different warlocks. The Charisma pact maker, and the intelligent occultist who doesn't make a pact but, like you suggest, delves into forbidden secrets. I'd like to make the occultist use regular spellcasting and have a spellbook similar to the wizard but using the warlock spell list.

I’m going the other way and making a Binder that fulfills that Warlock, and either uses pact magic explained as “has performed rituals to gain limited Spellcasting that they wouldn’t otherwise have”, ritual casting from level 1, and binds the power of otherworldly stuff to themselves, beholden to no one but their own Will.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I like making Bards Int casters, personally. Warlocks too. I’d probably make both have the choice on the PC side, if a player wanted to.

Bards int? If there is one class that should be cha casters it is the bards!

 

[Chaosmancer]

I see a couple of different warlocks. The Charisma pact maker, and the intelligent occultist who doesn't make a pact but, like you suggest, delves into forbidden secrets. I'd like to make the occultist use regular spellcasting and have a spellbook similar to the wizard but using the warlock spell list.

Thinking about it... wouldn't it make more since to just make it a Wizard subclass?

It is literally the choice a wizard makes to go off the beaten path and research forbidden lore, so it makes sense that the wizard class holds both of those, the seeker of truth and the delver of the forbidden. Then the Warlock falls entirely into the "I make deals" category

 

[cbwjm]

Thinking about it... wouldn't it make more since to just make it a Wizard subclass?

It is literally the choice a wizard makes to go off the beaten path and research forbidden lore, so it makes sense that the wizard class holds both of those, the seeker of truth and the delver of the forbidden. Then the Warlock falls entirely into the "I make deals" category

Different spell lists. I also see the wizard as more academic but the occultist not so much.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Different spell lists. I also see the wizard as more academic but the occultist not so much.

Sure, but you could give them the ability to learn Warlock spells on a level up instead of their normal savant feature.

 

[cbwjm]

Sure, but you could give them the ability to learn Warlock spells on a level up instead of their normal savant feature.

I'd have to open up the entire spell list as something to learn and research, not just on level up. The warlock spell list also has a different feel to it, less flash-bang spells that the wizard gets (though an occultist that learns the fiend spells will get some of that) which changes the feel of the class. I'd also prefer to otherwise keep the base warlock frame for the occultist, perhaps "Occultist" would replace the patron which changes the classes spellcasting, the various patron subclass abilities could be part of the knowledge they delve into, would have to work on balance though rather than making it pick and choose.

 

[MoonSong]

How so?

Somehow you can't move a comma of the other three classes without that infringing on the wizard. Also, it is a class that struggles to come with new subclasses. Outside of setting specific variants like defiler/preserver and High sorcery there is not much themes left to explore for the wizard. And if you give sage background to either of the other three, you kind of have the same basic character types covered. On the other hand, you can't really start with a wizard and end with an analogue to the other three.