D&D General DM Authority

[Thomas Shey]

I didn't read "upset" at all. I read hostile, which is much more than just "upset."

We're having a semantic/communication issue here, then. I don't read them as particularly different in practice.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Asking players to make suboptimal characters? Yeah, there's a whole lot o' tables where that ain't gonna fly.

If the GM is planning a big change at some point in the campaign right from square one, perhaps the best pitch might be something like "It'll start out as generic medieval fantasy and after that, who knows?".

Yeah. Doing two things can mitigate problems here significantly: 1. Know your audience. Do they dislike some genres/tones strongly? If so, starting in one and switching to another will not go well; 2. Giving them some warning right at the start that that things may veer strongly. You still may happen to hit something really wrong, but you're far less likely to walk right into a wall with it.

 

[Oofta]

We're having a semantic/communication issue here, then. I don't read them as particularly different in practice.

Well you did state

I'll be frank; if someone offers me a game of one type and then plays the "surprise, we're actually playing X" and X is something I actively dislike, I'm going to be pretty hostile about it too. And if I did it to someone else, I wouldn't be even faintly surprised to get some of the same.

Not sure how people are supposed to read "pretty hostile" as anything but being pretty hostile.

In any case if someone got to the point where they were pretty hostile in objecting to something I did as part of a game, even if I as DM had royally screwed up, I would tell them to leave and never invite them back. Everybody makes mistakes, there's no reason to get upset.

 

[Maxperson]

Well you did state


Not sure how people are supposed to read "pretty hostile" as anything but being pretty hostile.

In any case if someone got to the point where they were pretty hostile in objecting to something I did as part of a game, even if I as DM had royally screwed up, I would tell them to leave and never invite them back. Everybody makes mistakes, there's no reason to get upset.

I agree with most of that. I do think that there are times when getting upset is a valid response to the situation. I don't think that outright hostility is ever an appropriate response.

 

[Helldritch]

I agree with most of that. I do think that there are times when getting upset is a valid response to the situation. I don't think that outright hostility is ever an appropriate response.

And I have seen both. Fortunately it was not directed at me but an other player. He was pretty obnoxious and was in a divorce procedure (but we were not aware). It took all my diplomatic skill not to have a fight at my table between that player and two others. When we learned that he was in divorce procedure we understood his attitude and invited him back at the table. (We had not replaced him yet). He came back and he's been more than ok ever since.

All that to say that sometimes, even after such an episode, giving a chance to someone to explain himself might go a long way to heal hurted ego.

 

[Oofta]

And I have seen both. Fortunately it was not directed at me but an other player. He was pretty obnoxious and was in a divorce procedure (but we were not aware). It took all my diplomatic skill not to have a fight at my table between that player and two others. When we learned that he was in divorce procedure we understood his attitude and invited him back at the table. (We had not replaced him yet). He came back and he's been more than ok ever since.

All that to say that sometimes, even after such an episode, giving a chance to someone to explain himself might go a long way to heal hurted ego.

I understand getting upset. People are people. It's when voices get raised in anger that it crosses a line. Sometimes it can be walked back and forgiven as with your example. So that should always be considered.

I know there was a point when I was facing total burnout at work that I wasn't the best DM I could have been so I just had an honest conversation with the group and told them what was going on. They acknowledged it and we continued gaming together for several years until we moved out of state.

 

[Helldritch]

People are People. We can get a lot of mileage with just talking kindly to each others.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Well you did state


Not sure how people are supposed to read "pretty hostile" as anything but being pretty hostile.

In any case if someone got to the point where they were pretty hostile in objecting to something I did as part of a game, even if I as DM had royally screwed up, I would tell them to leave and never invite them back. Everybody makes mistakes, there's no reason to get upset.

Whereas I think there absolutely can be. As I said, there's a difference between flipping the table and making it abundantly clear that something is unacceptable. And frankly, if someone ejected me for that, that's an acceptable price.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I agree with most of that. I do think that there are times when getting upset is a valid response to the situation. I don't think that outright hostility is ever an appropriate response.

As I said, I don't consider them radically different statements. YMM (and obviously does) V.

 

[Maxperson]

As I said, I don't consider them radically different statements. YMM (and obviously does) V.

As does most people's mileage. You don't go into "upset" territory when you enter enemy lands. You enter hostile territory. You don't cease "upsetness" when there is a cease fire during war. You cease hostilities.

Upset is just an emotional state. Hostile means that you are also a threat towards what you are hostile towards.

You can view them as the same if you like, just expect people to respond to you like we have. We don't share your alternative definitions.