D&D 5E 20th level Sorcerer vs the world

[Hohige]

I think I've been clear this isn't something I'd allow or encourage (or subject PCs to) in a game I was running. I probably also would discourage someone from trying to make their sorcerer on the lines of these builds, because I don't think either would be particularly fun in-play, at a table.

All you did: "DM, help me". "I want do it, could you allow it?"

 

[prabe]

Minions are just Minions(Create Magen), they don't know nothing, they just obey commands. You failed again. They don't sleep, eat, It's just a construct that obey commands.
You still doesn't explain how defeats the Sorcerer's Master of Deception and Disguise

Genies are Elementals. Simulacrum are Construct, Made not born.

It doesn't matter how good the sorcerer is at those things now, it matters how good they've been at those things as they've progressed up levels. They have a past, and someone determined enough can research it--especially someone with +17 in the relevant skill. Someone, somewhere, knows the sorcerer's name, or what they call themself. "The Leader of the Magen Army" seems as though it might be adequate. "The master of that castle there" would probably work.

There's nothing in the rules as written that says simulacra can't cast wish. It's not an unreasonable limitation, but it's a houserule.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Divine Intervention​

"Beginning at 10th level, you can call on your deity to intervene on your behalf when your need is great.

Imploring your deity's aid requires you to use your action. Describe the assistance you seek, and roll percentile dice. If you roll a number equal to or lower than your cleric level, your deity intervenes. The DM chooses the nature of the intervention; the effect of any cleric spell or cleric domain spell would be appropriate. If your deity intervenes, you can't use this feature again for 7 days. Otherwise, you can use it again after you finish a long rest.

At 20th level, your call for intervention succeeds automatically, no roll required."

First problem, no one really knows is Demigod. He has multiple disguises and a level 9 or lower cleric spell doesn't seem threatening.

I do know you, you are the being taking over the world. Also it doesn't say a spell my cleric can cast it just suggests cleric spells as an option a dirty can choose to intercede with.

Since the options are up to the GM, I just picked a simple spell, Plane Shift, and killed you with that. You aren't more powerful than a god no matter how you build out your character.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

All wish is DM fiat, including the wishes outside duplicating spells.

No. Wish is a matter of DM discretion because the rules have explicitly put it in the realm of DM discretion. Deciding who can cast Wish is not a matter the spell leaves to the DM's discretion.

By your logic the fact that there is discretion built into the spell could mean that the DM can equally just decide that Sorcerers can't cast Wish, in which case you don't have much of a build here.

Now, of course, a DM can (and should) make up whatever rules they want, but I assumed we were playing by RAW here or else you can't really argue about what would happen with anything.

 

[Hohige]

It doesn't matter how good the sorcerer is at those things now, it matters how good they've been at those things as they've progressed up levels. They have a past, and someone determined enough can research it--especially someone with +17 in the relevant skill. Someone, somewhere, knows the sorcerer's name, or what they call themself. "The Leader of the Magen Army" seems as though it might be adequate. "The master of that castle there" would probably work.

There's nothing in the rules as written that says simulacra can't cast wish. It's not an unreasonable limitation, but it's a houserule.

Sorry, they aren't mortal creature.
"Wish is the mightiest spell a mortal creature can cast"
They are construct that don't die.
The simulacrum lasts until it drops to 0 Hit Points, at which point it reverts to snow and melts instantly.

It finish off the Simulacrum- Cheese.

 

[prabe]

Sorry, they aren't mortal creature.
They are construct that don't die.
The simulacrum lasts until it drops to 0 Hit Points, at which point it reverts to snow and melts instantly.

It finish off the Simulacrum- Cheese.

The phrase "the mightiest spell a mortal creature can cast" doesn't mean only mortal creatures can cast it; it means a mortal creature cannot cast a mightier spell. You're seriously reduced to arguing semantics, eh? Cool, cool.

 

[Hohige]

No. Wish is a matter of DM discretion because the rules have explicitly put it in the realm of DM discretion. Deciding who can cast Wish is not a matter the spell leaves to the DM's discretion.

By your logic the fact that there is discretion built into the spell could mean that the DM can equally just decide that Sorcerers can't cast Wish, in which case you don't have much of a build here.

Now, of course, a DM can (and should) make up whatever rules they want, but I assumed we were playing by RAW here or else you can't really argue about what would happen with anything.

"DM fiat spell/ability. DM, we can't defeat him, can you help us?"

 

[Hohige]

The phrase "the mightiest spell a mortal creature can cast" doesn't mean only mortal creatures can cast it; it means a mortal creature cannot cast a mightier spell. You're seriously reduced to arguing semantics, eh? Cool, cool.

All you've done so far is "DM fiat", Sorcerer can do that too. Nothing threatening and new. "I wish all Wizards and their allies are trapped in a permanent antimagic field that is impossible place to find, lose all ability to cast spells forever and completely forgotten by everyone, in all realms, in all the existing ages.
."

I win.

 

[prabe]

All you've done so far is "DM fiat", Sorcerer can do that too. Nothing threatening and new. "I wish all Wizards and their allies are trapped in a antimagic field that is impossible place to find, lose all ability to cast spells forever and completely forgotten by everyone, in all realms, in all the existing ages.
."

I win.

Kinda funny that you're complainig about DM fiat ... And you think that's as reasonable a way to phrase a wish as either of the ones I'm using? K.

 

[Hohige]

Kinda funny that you're complainig about DM fiat ... And you think that's as reasonable a way to phrase a wish as either of the ones I'm using? K.

What I want to tell you. You're just having a theoretical discussion that just proves that your whole strategy is purely DM fiat and that this is not a Wizard's power, it is a DM's power.
Understood?
It is only proving that the Sorcerer is more powerful than the Wizard.
And you can't fight without "DM, help me, he's too strong"