D&D 5E 20th level Sorcerer vs the world

Can Wizards Twin Simulacrum, Twin Finger of Death, Twin Mind Blank?
Extended Aid, Extended Seeming, Extended Ethrealness is too good. The Sorcerer regains sp to convert into spellls slots, the sorcerer casts more spells than Wizards Subtle is for stealth casting, avoid detection and social god tricks. It's how wizards are now Chicken statues.
Distant spell is obvious good to attack on safe range. Empower to increase his damage.

Twin Simulacrum? Effectively. They can cast a simulacrum that has a level 9 slot, allowing that Sim to Wish a Simulacrum spell that can duplicate such an effect, should that be decided to be legal.

Your turn: Which of the following is true:
  1. A Wish-based simulacrum spell could be directed as follows: "I wish for a Simulacrum of the person or creature most responsible for <a description of the Sorcerer's actions in the world>."
  2. Your DMM Sim is illegal unless you have an actual DMM on hand to touch for the casting of the Wish-based Simulacrum spell.
I honestly can't see a way that (2) would be legal but (1) would not.

Twin Mind Blank? Once again, sort of. The Wizard's Sim (unlike the Sorcerer's Sim) could cast Mind Blank.

Twin Finger? That, I'll give you, as you retain the ability to have your Sim combat cast something else.

The ability of a Sorcerer to cast more spells than a Wizard only applies at level 20 with ample short rests (coffee-locking) and discounting the advantages of a Wizard. The Sorcerer is, prior to 20, at a slight disadvantage compared to the Wizard in terms of raw number of spells cast per day. The Wizard gets Arcane Recovery, which compares (very slightly) favorably with the Sorcerer's SP --> slots Flexible Casting, but this difference is magnified by the alternative uses for SP. Barring Coffee-Locking activities, that remains true at level 20, too, especially if you include the free rituals and spells from Spell Mastery and Signature Spells.

Aid, Seeming, and Etherealness are all cool spells, too, and Extending them is also an excellent bit of utility. My Divine Soul Sorcerer in a low-level campaign typically Extends her Mage Armor spell. Turning an 8-hour spell into a 16-hour spell is great, but it still leaves you vulnerable for the remaining 8 hours of the day. That's a real drag. Aid can be a trap of false security, too. Those hit points go away when the spell ends. Someone with 8th-level Aid up (35 hp, IIRC) that has a total of 35 or less hit points is one successful Dispel Magic away from a dirt nap.

The converse, what a Wizard can do that a Sorcerer can't, is interesting to consider: Keep up Mind Blank and still have a Wish. Add a Plane Shift in there to get out of a Demiplane, if needed. Get the benefit of those bullet points in the Wish spell without risking the permanent loss of the ability to cast Wish (thanks to a Simulacrum that has a level 9 slot). Change spell load-outs from combat to social to exploration to something purpose-built for a special task. A Wizard never needs to hesitate to learn a spell (unless cash is really tight), while a Sorcerer must choose his spells carefully. Cast spells for free via ritual (the Sorcerer can duplicate this with a feat, IIRC). Wizards have, in general, a larger spell list and more spells known than do Sorcerers.

It turns the sorcerer into a monster that automatic wins saving throws and turn him into the best skill monkey of the game. With, Trance of Order Subtle/Extended Skill Empowerment, Magical Guidance, Minions's help action and Guidance cantrip. He can do everything better than all others.

Skill Empowerment is not unique to Sorcerers. It has a duration that is quite useful, and the cases where it would matter that it lasts two hours vs. one hour or is cast subtly are vanishingly small in most real-play contexts. Minions (or other party members, as this is a team-based game) can help anyone, and the Guidance cantrip depends on having something that can cast it (your DMM Sim that the Wizard could get through his Sim Wishing for the DMMSim).

The Sorcerer parts are Magical Guidance and Trance of Order. Both are, admittedly, good features. Trance is limited to one minute per day or a 5-SP cost to re-use it (use it on a convincing lie and you might not have it for a stealth check, or vice versa), and Magical Guidance is likewise limited in terms of sorcery points. (I know, a level 20 Sorcerer gets four SP back per short rest and can change spells into sorcery points. In real campaigns, that's typically a maximum of 4 to 12 SP per day plus the ones from the slots. Absent some degree of coffee-locking, you are still on a budget.)

(A Wizard with a Wish-cast Find Greater Steed Pegasus and (shared) Invulnerability is) a suicidal tatic, I will fail and another Wizard that is dead now.
Show me your Wizard's build with prepared spells. I will explain how to counter it easily.

Only, I'd imagine, by the previously-employed tactic of Schroedinger's actions (where you say what you do, then someone points out how that doesn't work, then you employ a different set of initial-round tactics -- ones tailor-built to the defense described). Of course, if you know ahead of time what you are facing or can change your actions once you realize they don't work, you will likely be able to counter obstacles. The problem is that in an actual play scenario, you won't know what spells have been pre-cast by your opponents.

The Bastion is the best skill monkey and manipulative character of the game and can create a army against all school of magic with his deception tricks.

@Gammadoodler covered my thoughts on skill monkeys, but to further explore the ideas of what a high deception gets to do: A trickster might be able to make the people believe that the Wizard's Guilds are up to no good, but that wouldn't let him dictate what actions they take, if any, against the guild. (In most settings, if you made the townsfolk believe that the local Wizard's Guild was out to get them, the reaction would probably be less "get the pitchforks" and more "run and hide.") It takes the additional Mass Suggestion to do that, and if that is the case, what was the point of the Deception?

Social Aside: Lies vs. the Truth
Did you know that there are no rules, guidelines, or DCs for getting someone to believe the truth. If your Sorcerer said to someone, "The Wizard Guild is committing atrocities," and made whatever DC the DM set for you, then a rep of the Wizard's Guild truthfully said to the victim of your lies, "We are not committing those atrocities," there is no roll for that representative to make. Any convincing is purely in the realm of DM fiat. In most games that I've played and DMed, Deception is only good for brief lies and tends to lose its effectiveness when confronted with either evidence counter to the lie or someone else telling the simple, honest truth. You can make someone believe a thing for a short time, not long enough to engage in an all-out war against a Wizard Guild (or anyone else).
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Clockwork Sorcerer, with metamagic, the best skill monkey of the game and more spells than Wizard's prepared spells boring? Ok.

My favorite deadly low level build. I always play it. It do what a mage should do. Fireball, but Super Fireball.


Scourge Aasimar Dragon Sorcerer level 8
Feat: Elemental Adept(Fire) feat, Tough feat and 16 con.
82 HP, AC 16 (21 with shield)
Metamagic: Empower, Quicken.

Action Aasimar's skill
Bonus action: Quicken Empowered level 4 Fireball.

Damage: Final damage 55.
Its one shot against Wizards.

Next turn:
Empowered fire bolt for 18 damage.
Quicken Fireball for 55 damage.
total of 73 damage.

All damage ignores resistence and cover.

Simple, Effective, One Shot K.O and tanker.
At 8th level, I think I would match this with a wood elf Tempest cleric 8.

Feats: Resilient (Dexterity), Shield Master
Stats: Con 14, Dex 16 (13 base, +2 wood elf, +1 Resilient), Wis 16 (15 base, +1 wood elf)
Hp 74, base 59 (10 + 7 x 7), +15 with aid upcast using a 4th-level slot
AC 19 (half plate, shield, +2 Dex)

Assuming 16 Charisma, the sorcerer's spell save DC is 14 (8 + 3 prof + 3 Cha).
The cleric's Dex save is +6 (+3 prof +3 Dex), so on a roll of 8 or better (65% chance) the cleric takes no damage from fireball due to Shield Master.

To calculate the damage of the Quickened Empowered fireball, I assume that the sorcerer re-rolls any dice that come up 1 to 3. For simplicity, I'll be generous and assume that there is no limit to the number of dice re-rolled. Elemental Adept makes the average damage for a d6 3 2/3. The average damage per die is thus (3 2/3 + 3 2/3 + 3 2/3 + 4 + 5 + 6)/6 = 4 1/3, or 39 damage for a fireball upcast using a 4th-level slot, +3 for Elemental Affinity. That's a 35% chance of 42 fire damage and 8 necrotic damage and a 65% chance of no damage (Necrotic Shroud doesn't come into play if the aasimar doesn't deal damage), or an average of 17.5 damage.

In response, the cleric opens with call lightning upcast with a 4th-level slot and uses Channel Divinity: Destructive Wrath to maximize the damage. Assuming the sorcerer has a Dexterity of 12 or 13, his Dex save is +1 vs DC 14. that means a 60% chance of 40 lightning damage and a 40% chance of 20 lightning damage (32 average).

The cleric can repeat this next round as he has two uses of Channel Divinity between rests (on average, 64 damage so far).

Meanwhile, the sorcerer has cast another Quickened Empowered fireball for an average of 17.5 damage, and an Empowered fire bolt. Elemental Adept increases the average damage for a d10 to 5.6. Assuming the sorcerer re-rolls any result of 1 to 5, the average damage for an Empowered fire bolt is (5.6 x 5 + 6 + 7 + 8 + 9 + 10)/10 x 2 +3 for Elemental Affinity = 16.6 fire damage. The sorcerer should have a spell attack modifier of +6 (+3 prof, +3 Cha). Against an AC of 19, that's a 40% chance to hit. I'll be generous and allow the damage to double on a crit and to potentially count the extra damage from Necrotic Shroud twice. Including doubling the damage from a crit, it deals an average of 24.6 x 0.45 = 11.1 damage. On average, after the sorcerer has expended 7 of his 8 sorcery points and both 4th-level spell slots, the cleric has 27.9 hit points left and can probably weather another round of attacks from the sorcerer, who is now down to 3rd-level spell slots and can Empower only one more spell.

In subsequent rounds, the cleric's damage reduces to an average of 17.6 per round (60% chance of 22 damage and 40% chance of 11 damage). Since the sorcerer has an average of 18 hit points by now, if no other measures are taken, the cleric kills him in the third round if he is lucky or in the fourth round otherwise.

On balance, it's probably quite close and will boil down to who gets initiative (slight advantage to the cleric since he has the higher Dex).
 

At 8th level, I think I would match this with a wood elf Tempest cleric 8.

Feats: Resilient (Dexterity), Shield Master
Stats: Con 14, Dex 16 (13 base, +2 wood elf, +1 Resilient), Wis 16 (15 base, +1 wood elf)
Hp 74, base 59 (10 + 7 x 7), +15 with aid upcast using a 4th-level slot
AC 19 (half plate, shield, +2 Dex)

Assuming 16 Charisma, the sorcerer's spell save DC is 14 (8 + 3 prof + 3 Cha).
The cleric's Dex save is +6 (+3 prof +3 Dex), so on a roll of 8 or better (65% chance) the cleric takes no damage from fireball due to Shield Master.

To calculate the damage of the Quickened Empowered fireball, I assume that the sorcerer re-rolls any dice that come up 1 to 3. For simplicity, I'll be generous and assume that there is no limit to the number of dice re-rolled. Elemental Adept makes the average damage for a d6 3 2/3. The average damage per die is thus (3 2/3 + 3 2/3 + 3 2/3 + 4 + 5 + 6)/6 = 4 1/3, or 39 damage for a fireball upcast using a 4th-level slot, +3 for Elemental Affinity. That's a 35% chance of 42 fire damage and 8 necrotic damage and a 65% chance of no damage (Necrotic Shroud doesn't come into play if the aasimar doesn't deal damage), or an average of 17.5 damage.

In response, the cleric opens with call lightning upcast with a 4th-level slot and uses Channel Divinity: Destructive Wrath to maximize the damage. Assuming the sorcerer has a Dexterity of 12 or 13, his Dex save is +1 vs DC 14. that means a 60% chance of 40 lightning damage and a 40% chance of 20 lightning damage (32 average).

The cleric can repeat this next round as he has two uses of Channel Divinity between rests (on average, 64 damage so far).

Meanwhile, the sorcerer has cast another Quickened Empowered fireball for an average of 17.5 damage, and an Empowered fire bolt. Elemental Adept increases the average damage for a d10 to 5.6. Assuming the sorcerer re-rolls any result of 1 to 5, the average damage for an Empowered fire bolt is (5.6 x 5 + 6 + 7 + 8 + 9 + 10)/10 x 2 +3 for Elemental Affinity = 16.6 fire damage. The sorcerer should have a spell attack modifier of +6 (+3 prof, +3 Cha). Against an AC of 19, that's a 40% chance to hit. I'll be generous and allow the damage to double on a crit and to potentially count the extra damage from Necrotic Shroud twice. Including doubling the damage from a crit, it deals an average of 24.6 x 0.45 = 11.1 damage. On average, after the sorcerer has expended 7 of his 8 sorcery points and both 4th-level spell slots, the cleric has 27.9 hit points left and can probably weather another round of attacks from the sorcerer, who is now down to 3rd-level spell slots and can Empower only one more spell.

In subsequent rounds, the cleric's damage reduces to an average of 17.6 per round (60% chance of 22 damage and 40% chance of 11 damage). Since the sorcerer has an average of 18 hit points by now, if no other measures are taken, the cleric kills him in the third round if he is lucky or in the fourth round otherwise.

On balance, it's probably quite close and will boil down to who gets initiative (slight advantage to the cleric since he has the higher Dex).

Thank you for doing the mock-up fight. Note that you could make your Cleric more resilient: you don't expect the fight to last more than 5 rounds and therefore keep your 4th and 3rd level slots for attacking, but there is no reason not to use your bonus action to cast Healing Words, expanding 2nd level spell slots for an average of 11 HP a round for the 3 first round then 7. It could weather the damage incurred by a fireball.

Going by your numbers, at the end each rounds, respective HP of the sorcerer and cleric would be, assuming no upcast Aid spell as you'd want to keep your 4th level slots to inflict damage, assuming the sorcerer gets the initiative.

Round 1 : 50/49.5
Round 2 : 18/29
Round 3 : 0.5/19.5
Round 4 : deader than dead/9.5.

Edited to get the numbers right based on Flamestrike's correction (8 and 5.5 HP)
 
Last edited:

Thank you for doing the mock-up fight. Note that you could make your Cleric more resilient: you don't expect the fight to last more than 5 rounds and therefore keep your 4th and 3rd level slots for attacking, but there is no reason not to use your bonus action to cast Healing Words, expanding 2nd level spell slots for an average of 11 HP a round for the 3 first round then 7. It could weather the damage incurred by a fireball.
Yes, excellent point. I'd forgotten I could use my bonus actions for healing word.

Edit: Although the amount healed should be 8 hp for a 2nd-level spell slot and 5 hp for a 1st-level spell slot since it's a Tempest cleric, not Life.
 
Last edited:

I always play it.

Don't lie, you don't play the game with real people at all.

Scourge Aasimar Dragon Sorcerer level 8
Feat: Elemental Adept(Fire) feat, Tough feat and 16 con.
82 HP, AC 16 (21 with shield)
Metamagic: Empower, Quicken.

Dex and Con would both need to be 16 for that AC and HP which kind of limits your Charisma to not also being 16 seeing as you havent taken any ASI.

Action Aasimar's skill
Bonus action: Quicken Empowered level 4 Fireball.
Damage: Final damage 55.

Its one shot against Wizards.

Fireball is counter spelled by the Diviner Wizard (metamagic adept subtle, Alert), which you cant counter in return seeing as you used a bonus action spell this turn, limiting additional spellcasting by you this turn to a cantrip, which counterspell is not.

The Diviner then subtle spell summons a Balgura with a level 4 slot, an orders it to wail on the Sorcerer, which it does (3 attacks at advantage at +7)

Next turn:
Empowered fire bolt for 18 damage.
Quicken Fireball for 55 damage.
total of 73 damage.

Fireball is Subtle spell counter spelled.

You now have used 4 SP for 2 x Quickens, and 2 for Empowers, and both x 4th level slots.

I've used 2 x 4ths and a 3rd.

On my turn you're lighting bolted, with my remaining 3rd level slot, and your Save and Ability check (if you attempt to counter it) is replaced with my foretelling results of '1'.

The Balgura then wails on you again. You're dead.
 

I mean, this assumes Skill Empowerment right? So, with by casting a 5th level spell, and using a class feature, and having a second character cast guidance on them..constantly somehow, they get to be maybe verrry slightly better than a vanilla rogue is with the rogue's proficient skills...for 1 minute at a time (maybe a little longer if the sorcerer is burning all their slots for SP, and using all those SP for Trance).

An ordinary rogue with magic initiate is your equal with at least 4 of the skills with no resource expenditure 24/7 before factoring in any subclass benefits, races or feats. Call it stealth, insight, perception, investigation, and 90% of your approach mechanics turn into a coin toss. (Actually it's worse than that since at 20, rogues can use stroke of luck to make an ability check roll turn into a 20 1x/SR, which means if the rogue looks for you and you are present, they will find you).

And there's more, rogues are this good at all of these skills at the same time. So while your sorcerer is burning a 5th level spell slot to be temporarily rogue-like in stealth, they can't be similarly rogue-like in perception so they are vulnerable to other stealthy parties.

"An ordinary rogue with magic initiate is your equal with at least 4 of the skills with no resource expenditure 24/7 before factoring in any subclass benefits, races or feats. Call it stealth, insight, perception, investigation, and 90% of your approach mechanics turn into a coin toss. (Actually it's worse than that since at 20, rogues can use stroke of luck to make an ability check roll turn into a 20 1x/SR, which means if the rogue looks for you and you are present, they will find you)."

Congratulations, this is the rogue's job. But the Sorcerer does it better and It's a full caster with more spell known that Wizard's prepared spell and metamagic.

Rogue's Reliable talent is restricted to skills that he is proficient at. Skill Empowerment is for any skill. Trance of Order is for any skill, saving throw and attack roll.
So, It's Skill Empowerment to give expertise to every skill on the game.
Magical Guidance to reroll failed skill checks (1 sp only, the level 20 Sorcerer has a lot of spells slots. reallly, a lot).
Minions's Help action for advantage.
Minions's Guidance

Yes, it costs SP. But that is not a problem for Sorcerer's Sorcerous Restoration.


"And there's more, rogues are this good at all of these skills at the same time. So while your sorcerer is burning a 5th level spell slot to be temporarily rogue-like in stealth, they can't be similarly rogue-like in perception so they are vulnerable to other stealthy parties."


The Sorcerer has Skill Expert feat (Stealth), Extended/Subtle Pass without trace, advantage, Shadow mark +1d4, guidance +1d4 and Trance of Order. It also has acess to powerful stealth spells invisibility and greater invisibility that is enhanced with Subtle Spell (not revealing himself). It's also hidden against divination, rogue not.
Also Spells like Ethrealness, Action to reapper + Quicken Spell is really deadly combo against enemies.
If he is detected, contigency spell casts Greater Invisibility and Seeming Spell allows him change his appaerence to avoid hostility against him.
This is enough to guarantee an infallible murder.
When Rogue attack It reveals himself. While Sorcerer's Sneaky Casting doesn't reveal himself, for impunity.
Sorcerer's perception is also strong, The Sorcerer can cast Skill Empowerment for perception to usu Search Action. It's 25~35+1d4 on perception check. Are you sure about that?

The Sorcerer is better, more reliable, a lot of resources avaiable, a lot of buffs allows him to incredible good.
Sorcerer is not only better than Rogue, no. He simply does everything better than rogue and with full casting spellcaster with sneaky casting.
 

Fireball is counter spelled by the Diviner Wizard (metamagic adept subtle, Alert), which you cant counter in return seeing as you used a bonus action spell this turn, limiting additional spellcasting by you this turn to a cantrip, which counterspell is not.

The Diviner then subtle spell summons a Balgura with a level 4 slot, an orders it to wail on the Sorcerer, which it does (3 attacks at advantage at +7)



Fireball is Subtle spell counter spelled.

You now have used 4 SP for 2 x Quickens, and 2 for Empowers, and both x 4th level slots.

I've used 2 x 4ths and a 3rd.

On my turn you're lighting bolted, with my remaining 3rd level slot, and your Save and Ability check (if you attempt to counter it) is replaced with my foretelling results of '1'.

The Balgura then wails on you again. You're dead.

No. Counterspell is 60ft range vs 150ft Fireball and 120ft firebolt. Sorry It's one shot.

The Wizard has only 2 Sorcery Points. :ROFLMAO:
Also no, Portent you must roll a 2d20, you can't choose your '1' on dice.

One shot, K.O.

You did a x1 against this Sorcerer and lose. I remember :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 

At 8th level, I think I would match this with a wood elf Tempest cleric 8.

Feats: Resilient (Dexterity), Shield Master
Stats: Con 14, Dex 16 (13 base, +2 wood elf, +1 Resilient), Wis 16 (15 base, +1 wood elf)
Hp 74, base 59 (10 + 7 x 7), +15 with aid upcast using a 4th-level slot
AC 19 (half plate, shield, +2 Dex)

Assuming 16 Charisma, the sorcerer's spell save DC is 14 (8 + 3 prof + 3 Cha).
The cleric's Dex save is +6 (+3 prof +3 Dex), so on a roll of 8 or better (65% chance) the cleric takes no damage from fireball due to Shield Master.

To calculate the damage of the Quickened Empowered fireball, I assume that the sorcerer re-rolls any dice that come up 1 to 3. For simplicity, I'll be generous and assume that there is no limit to the number of dice re-rolled. Elemental Adept makes the average damage for a d6 3 2/3. The average damage per die is thus (3 2/3 + 3 2/3 + 3 2/3 + 4 + 5 + 6)/6 = 4 1/3, or 39 damage for a fireball upcast using a 4th-level slot, +3 for Elemental Affinity. That's a 35% chance of 42 fire damage and 8 necrotic damage and a 65% chance of no damage (Necrotic Shroud doesn't come into play if the aasimar doesn't deal damage), or an average of 17.5 damage.

In response, the cleric opens with call lightning upcast with a 4th-level slot and uses Channel Divinity: Destructive Wrath to maximize the damage. Assuming the sorcerer has a Dexterity of 12 or 13, his Dex save is +1 vs DC 14. that means a 60% chance of 40 lightning damage and a 40% chance of 20 lightning damage (32 average).

The cleric can repeat this next round as he has two uses of Channel Divinity between rests (on average, 64 damage so far).

Meanwhile, the sorcerer has cast another Quickened Empowered fireball for an average of 17.5 damage, and an Empowered fire bolt. Elemental Adept increases the average damage for a d10 to 5.6. Assuming the sorcerer re-rolls any result of 1 to 5, the average damage for an Empowered fire bolt is (5.6 x 5 + 6 + 7 + 8 + 9 + 10)/10 x 2 +3 for Elemental Affinity = 16.6 fire damage. The sorcerer should have a spell attack modifier of +6 (+3 prof, +3 Cha). Against an AC of 19, that's a 40% chance to hit. I'll be generous and allow the damage to double on a crit and to potentially count the extra damage from Necrotic Shroud twice. Including doubling the damage from a crit, it deals an average of 24.6 x 0.45 = 11.1 damage. On average, after the sorcerer has expended 7 of his 8 sorcery points and both 4th-level spell slots, the cleric has 27.9 hit points left and can probably weather another round of attacks from the sorcerer, who is now down to 3rd-level spell slots and can Empower only one more spell.

In subsequent rounds, the cleric's damage reduces to an average of 17.6 per round (60% chance of 22 damage and 40% chance of 11 damage). Since the sorcerer has an average of 18 hit points by now, if no other measures are taken, the cleric kills him in the third round if he is lucky or in the fourth round otherwise.

On balance, it's probably quite close and will boil down to who gets initiative (slight advantage to the cleric since he has the higher Dex).
I strongly disagree.

your AC is 17. You expend a level 4 spell slot, but It has duration 8 hours. The cleric is without protection for 16 hours. So It's 59 HP base most time. You don't have Extended Spell.


"To calculate the damage of the Quickened Empowered fireball, I assume that the sorcerer re-rolls any dice that come up 1 to 3. For simplicity, I'll be generous and assume that there is no limit to the number of dice re-rolled. Elemental Adept makes the average damage for a d6 3 2/3. The average damage per die is thus (3 2/3 + 3 2/3 + 3 2/3 + 4 + 5 + 6)/6 = 4 1/3, or 39 damage for a fireball upcast using a 4th-level slot, +3 for Elemental Affinity. That's a 35% chance of 42 fire damage and 8 necrotic damage and a 65% chance of no damage (Necrotic Shroud doesn't come into play if the aasimar doesn't deal damage), or an average of 17.5 damage."

It isn't Necrotic Shoud. It's Radiant Consumption.

Empowered d6 is average 4,25. With Elemental Adept, It's 4.5
9x4.5 = 41 + 3 Elemental Adept + 8 Radiant Consumption +4 AoE radiant Consumption = 56 average damage.


"The cleric's Dex save is +6 (+3 prof +3 Dex), so on a roll of 8 or better (65% chance) the cleric takes no damage from fireball due to Shield Master."


The Dragon Sorcerer is especially prepared against high dex saving throw, shield master and rogues.

+6 x 17 AC = 45% chance to hit.

Upcast 4th level Scorching Ray = 45 damage +3 Elemental Adept + 8 Radiant Consumption +4 AoE Radiant Conumption + Firebolt for extra 17 damage.

Chance to hit: (45+17) x 0,45 = 28 average damage + 3 + 8 Radiant Consumption +4 AoE = Final damage after AC chance to hit = 43 average damage.

On 2 turns, your cleric is dead.


"In response, the cleric opens with call lightning upcast with a 4th-level slot and uses Channel Divinity: Destructive Wrath to maximize the damage. Assuming the sorcerer has a Dexterity of 12 or 13, his Dex save is +1 vs DC 14. that means a 60% chance of 40 lightning damage and a 40% chance of 20 lightning damage (32 average)."

1 ) Counterspell.
2) Also, Absorb Elements to 20 damage or 10 damage.
Its nothing. If not counterspelled, It's the best Cleric Burst against 82 HP sorcerer.
3) It's a concentration spell that is easily broken with Sorcerer's high damage.



The Sorcerer can also use Quicken Polymorph, turn himself into a Giant Ape with +9 to hit and attack on same turn. for sweet 50 average damage.


I love Tempest Cleric, But this Sorcerer is the best blaster and tanker.
 
Last edited:

No. Counterspell is 60ft range vs 150ft Fireball and 120ft firebolt. Sorry It's one shot.

I strongly disagree. If you are at 150 ft, then your Scourge Aasimar ability only allows you to add 8 HP worth of radiant damage.

Your transformation lasts for 1 minute or until you end it as a bonus action. During it, you shed bright light in a 10-foot radius and dim light for an additional 10 feet, and at the end of each of your turns, you and each creature within 10 feet of you take radiant damage equal to half your level (rounded up). In addition, once on each of your turns, you can deal extra radiant damage to one target when you deal damage to it with an attack or a spell. The extra radiant damage equals your level.

So you must be within 10 ft to claim such extraordinary damage.

The extra damage of the aura is 10 ft. With an average of 32 damage from the empowered fireball (provided you can actually reroll 3 of your 8 dice from your Empower), that's 40 damage (+3 from Elemental Adept). Not enough to kill a CON 12+ Wizard (barely).

The Wizard has only 2 Sorcery Points. :ROFLMAO:
Also no, Portent you must roll a 2d20, you can't choose your '1' on dice.

One shot, K.O.

You did a x1 against this Sorcerer and lose. I remember :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

No, as the first spell was dispelled. Or you wanted to cheat by adding damage that shouldn't be, disqualifying the build. One Sorc dead more...
 

I strongly disagree. If you are at 150 ft, then your Scourge Aasimar ability only allows you to add 8 HP worth of radiant damage.



So you must be within 10 ft to claim such extraordinary damage.

The extra damage of the aura is 10 ft. With an average of 32 damage from the empowered fireball (provided you can actually reroll 3 of your 8 dice from your Empower), that's 40 damage. Not enough to kill a CON 12+ Wizard.



No, as the first spell was dispelled. Or you wanted to cheat by adding damage that shouldn't be, disqualifying the build. One Sorc dead more...

"The extra damage of the aura is 10 ft. With an average of 32 damage from the empowered fireball (provided you can actually reroll 3 of your 8 dice from your Empower), that's 40 damage. Not enough to kill a CON 12+ Wizard."

Upcasted 4th, Empowered, Elemental Adept, Aasimar
at 150ft 9x 4.5 (average for empower and elemental adept) + 3 Elemental afinity + 8 Radiant Soul = 52 damage.
Yes, It's one shot.

1611055435916.png



Quicken Fireball and Firebolt can deal more than 78 damage in a single turn.

The Wizard's damage is 28 😂😂
 
Last edited:

Remove ads

Top