D&D 5E Comparing Monk DPR

[S'mon]

Wizards can lock down far more targets, with the same or better odds of success. The single round of stun makes it sub-optimal in terms of lock down options given there are lots of multi-round lockdowns in the game.

Not my experience, even with Hypnotic Pattern & Banishment being very useful. Level 10 Monk has around 30 Ki per typical Adventuring Day with 2 short rests. Wizard 10 can Nova a few times but cannot spam level 3 & 4 spell slots the way a Monk can repeatedly Stun round after round. Also Stun is more powerful than just Incapacitated by HP, or removed from combat by Banishment - both of which require Concentration.

 

[NaturalZero]

While this is true, it's extremely resource intensive. Stunning Strike is a CON save, a high save for many monsters - so it often takes A LOT of Ki to lock something down.

I wonder if anyone has done a decent analysis on stun chance among a wide range of monsters?

In one of these threads someone mentioned the latest season of Crit Role, which is up to session 130 and includes a monk with an above average stat line. The fans keep detailed notes on every interaction and roll that happens on air, so this is an amazingly thorough public test of the monk. I'll try to find the results but they've fought a broad range of enemy types over the course of 130 sessions and the statistical verdict was that monk with maxed out Wis still has a pretty abysmal chance at stunning enemies in general.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I have an issue with the choice of Warlock as a baseline (and I like warlock).

 

[Zardnaar]

I have an issue with the choice of Warlock as a baseline (and I like warlock).

Yeah it's above average.

Baseline is sword and board fighter or rogue (without scag cantrips) IMHO.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Above level 11 a lot breaks down.
One thing the monk does very well however is having the best saves you can imagine with inbuilt reroll.
Also the mobility especially of a shadow monk is very very high.

So de monk (as in 3.5) is excellent at fighting spellcasters. In a game without feats, most won't have con save proficiency, so holding concentration or defending vs stunning attacks will be hard.
It won't be bad, if some future book will gibmve some nice feats for a monk, that help them keep up with other high end feats.
Right now a strategical 4 level dip into battlemaster fighter should give the monk an excellent increase in power above level 10.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

It is a solid number crunching, the problem is you can't put a DPR value on stunning strike. For my money, that's THE signature ability of monks in 5E. Period. When the crossbow expert can fire four "stunning shots" per round, then it will be a fair comparison.

Which is what this always circles back to.

The Monk has one overpowered ability, which is relatively boring to use (for literally everyone involved, including the DM!) and benefits the rest of the party rather than them, so the fact that otherwise they're a bit dubious is ignored. I don't discount Stunning Strike, note, it is highly effective in a lot of situations, but it is boring, and the fact that exists stops the Monk from being balanced properly so it should probably be removed entirely (yeah, yeah I can hear the wails, mostly from people who don't play Monks but love hitting stunned targets, from here) and the Monk rebalanced accordingly.

Yeah it's above average.

Baseline is sword and board fighter or rogue (without scag cantrips) IMHO.

SnB Fighter is a poor comparison point given that it's an explicitly defensive option. A properly optimized Rogue using PHB-only would be fine though.

 

[jgsugden]

I play a monk in a slowly advancing weekly game. His DPR is the least of his concern. He is intended to be a scalpel, not a chainsaw. He gets to key enemies and ties them up to prevent them from destroying his allies while those allies deal the damage.

 

[Zardnaar]

Monks I've seen fail spend all their ki points running around pointlessly or fighting defensively.

There's a time and place for it just not all the time.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I play a monk in a slowly advancing weekly game. His DPR is the least of his concern. He is intended to be a scalpel, not a chainsaw. He gets to key enemies and ties them up to prevent them from destroying his allies while those allies deal the damage.

Sounds like an anaesthetic not a scalpel mate.

Certainly that would be closer to how I see most well-played Monks actually play out - largely an anaesthetic for some poor badguy. Great at getting those Legendary resists out of the way so further lockdown can occur too.

 

[Zardnaar]

Sounds like an anaesthetic not a scalpel mate.

Certainly that would be closer to how I see most well-played Monks actually play out - largely an anaesthetic for some poor badguy. Great at getting those Legendary resists out of the way so further lockdown can occur too.

Barely used my stunning strike. Knocking stuff probe and moar damage did the trick. While prone you get advantage to hit along with everyone else.