Playtest (A5E) Level Up Playtest Document #14: Warlock

Welcome to the 14th Level Up playtest document. This playtest contains a candidate for the first 10 levels of the game’s warlock class.

Level Up Playtest Document #14: Warlock — Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)

Welcome to the 14th Level Up playtest document. This playtest contains a candidate for the first 10 levels of the game’s warlock class.

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And when you're ready, please take the playtest survey to give us feedback!

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[doctorbadwolf]

I think using cantrips as an attack would work, also. I do think a dedicated melee warlock should do somewhat more damage than a ranged warlock's 4d10+20, and mingling the cantrip option with multiple attacks, feats, the hex spell, etc, could be challenging to word.

My other concern would be integrating that with magical weapons, as I do think (core book assertion aside) that assuming some amount of magic item progression is an important balance consideration.

Fair points. I think that Eldritch Blast is probably the easiest one, because you can simply say that each Blast counts as a melee weapon attack when used with a 5ft range, and even have it do 1d8+mod, and then it naturally benefits from both weapon stuff and EB stuff.

So, maybe the level 1 feature is to have a couple EB options that are melee and can look like weapons, and the Pact of The Blade feature is to treat them as making a number of melee weapon attacks using your spellcasting ability modifier, rather than as melee spell attacks?
I'd even say that Pact of The Blade probably needs to add that mod to damage, rather than making that a separate invocation.

Edit: And PoTB should allow the use of a weapon as spellcasting focus, and gaining the benefits of a magic weapon you've attuned as your focus on your melee EB attacks.

I'd be interested in seeing that if it's something you have available or published. I use the Mage Hand Press Binder in my own game, but I'd love to see a different take with a warlock-like chassis.

I will allocate some time this week to working more on the second draft of it, having taken some time to be less in love with the fresh ideas I had in the first draft. Much easier to kill those ideas having given myself some time to forget them!

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Okay! What about this:

Eldritch : You can harness Eldritch Power into lethal attacks without relying on your limited spell power. When you take the Attack Action, you can choose to use your Eldritch Blast to make the attack. Your Eldritch Blast uses your spellcasting ability modifier for attacks, and deals 1d10 force damage, but does not add any modifiers to damage unless a feature says otherwise. The range of your Eldritch Blast is 120ft.
When you gain this feature, and again at levels 5, 11, and 17, you choose one of the following Eldritch Weapons to modify your Eldritch Blast. You choose which Eldritch Weapon you are using, or to use your unmodified Blast, when you take the Attack Action.

• Eldritch Spear: Your range with Eldritch Blast is doubled.
• Eldritch Scythe: [as the document]
• Eldritch Whip: You make a melee weapon attack with your eldritch blast, dealing 1d6 damage, and if you hit the target must succeed on a strength saving throw or be moved up to 10ft in the direction you choose. [possible invocation: target is also grappled, takes 1d4 force damage every turn they remain grappled, and you have advantage on attacks with the whip against them while they are grappled by it]
• Eldritch Cannon: range 100ft, dex save vs 1d8 force damage for all creatures within 15ft of the chosen space. Language chosen to make objects also take damage, perhaps?
• Eldritch Hammer/Sword/Whatever: Basic melee weapon attack option, just about melee damage dealing.

And then Pact of The Blade could say that you learn an additional Eldritch Blast option, and when you use a melee EB option, you add your spellcasting ability mod to damage, and can use weapons as spellcasting focus, and you can choose to use the range/reach and other properties of the chosen weapon when you make melee weapon attacks with the focus.


Also, should we limit it to melee weapons, actually? Why not support bow use out of the gate? Eldritch Archers are cool.

 

[TwoSix]

Okay! What about this:

Eldritch : You can harness Eldritch Power into lethal attacks without relying on your limited spell power. When you take the Attack Action, you can choose to use your Eldritch Blast to make the attack. Your Eldritch Blast uses your spellcasting ability modifier for attacks, and deals 1d10 force damage, but does not add any modifiers to damage unless a feature says otherwise. The range of your Eldritch Blast is 120ft.
When you gain this feature, and again at levels 5, 11, and 17, you choose one of the following Eldritch Weapons to modify your Eldritch Blast. You choose which Eldritch Weapon you are using, or to use your unmodified Blast, when you take the Attack Action.

• Eldritch Spear: Your range with Eldritch Blast is doubled.
• Eldritch Scythe: [as the document]
• Eldritch Whip: You make a melee weapon attack with your eldritch blast, dealing 1d6 damage, and if you hit the target must succeed on a strength saving throw or be moved up to 10ft in the direction you choose. [possible invocation: target is also grappled, takes 1d4 force damage every turn they remain grappled, and you have advantage on attacks with the whip against them while they are grappled by it]
• Eldritch Cannon: range 100ft, dex save vs 1d8 force damage for all creatures within 15ft of the chosen space. Language chosen to make objects also take damage, perhaps?
• Eldritch Hammer/Sword/Whatever: Basic melee weapon attack option, just about melee damage dealing.

And then Pact of The Blade could say that you learn an additional Eldritch Blast option, and when you use a melee EB option, you add your spellcasting ability mod to damage, and can use weapons as spellcasting focus, and you can choose to use the range/reach and other properties of the chosen weapon when you make melee weapon attacks with the focus.


Also, should we limit it to melee weapons, actually? Why not support bow use out of the gate? Eldritch Archers are cool.

I like it. Just some possible proud nails:

1) I'm assuming number of attacks will scale at 5, 11, 17, as normal, correct? I feel fairly strongly that attacks with a pact blade should be limited; 4 attacks at 1d10+5 is one thing, 4 attacks with a GWM'ed +2 Greatsword treads too closely to Fighter territory for my liking. (I'm assuming range, reach, and other properties of the weapon means that various weapon feats and magic properties would be usable.)

2) Eldritch Cannon. Not a big of fan of AoEs with saves as a multi-attack at-will. I feel similarly about Eldritch Spasm from the playtest document, I just don't like forcing multiple saves. Maybe a 30' range 1d8 ranged attack with a 10' push instead (taking the place of Repelling Blast?)

I'm trying to decide what sort of attack pattern is best for a bladelock gish; I'm thinking a mix of pact blade attacks and attacks with Eldritch Ray or Eldritch Scythe or Eldritch Whip.

 

[Faolyn]

I think this would actually open things up more than what is currently the case.

In a bad way?

OK, of the four PH familiars:

Imp: limited shapechanging, MR, Invisibility, poison sting.

Pseudodragon: MR, limited species telepathy, poison sting with possible unconsciousness.

Quasit: limited shapechanging, 1/day Scare, MR, Invisibility, poison bite.

Sprite: detect alignment, Invisibility, poison arrows.

(And gazers have eye rays, Mimicry, and Aggressive)

So, I could see creating a monster block where your familiar can have, say, three of MR, poison attack, invisibility, 1/day scare, or limited shapechanging. Maybe throw in a few other abilities; say, a mephit-like breath weapon or death throes burst.

I bought the Compendium of Forgotten Secrets 3pp and that has a ton of warlock familiars I could crib from as well.

I'd also add, as an invocation if necessary, the ability to spend a spell slot (or points, if we absolutely must keep spell points) to increase the stats of the familiar, just like casting a tasha's summon spell at a higher level.

I like! It could be temp hp, advantage on certain rolls, or something like that.

 

[Faolyn]

Also, should we limit it to melee weapons, actually? Why not support bow use out of the gate? Eldritch Archers are cool.

That's either going to be just like the standard EB reskinned, or too powerful because of its very long range.

 

[TwoSix]

In a bad way?

OK, of the four PH familiars:

Imp: limited shapechanging, MR, Invisibility, poison sting.

Pseudodragon: MR, limited species telepathy, poison sting with possible unconsciousness.

Quasit: limited shapechanging, 1/day Scare, MR, Invisibility, poison bite.

Sprite: detect alignment, Invisibility, poison arrows.

(And gazers have eye rays, Mimicry, and Aggressive)

So, I could see creating a monster block where your familiar can have, say, three of MR, poison attack, invisibility, 1/day scare, or limited shapechanging. Maybe throw in a few other abilities; say, a mephit-like breath weapon or death throes burst.

I bought the Compendium of Forgotten Secrets 3pp and that has a ton of warlock familiars I could crib from as well.


I like! It could be temp hp, advantage on certain rolls, or something like that.

That Compendium is a fantastic product.

 

[Faolyn]

That Compendium is a fantastic product.

A bit too world-specific for my tastes, but quite flavorful and full of interesting ideas. Sadly, they don't seem to have done much lately on their cleric compendium, as far as I can tell.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I like it. Just some possible proud nails:

1) I'm assuming number of attacks will scale at 5, 11, 17, as normal, correct? I feel fairly strongly that attacks with a pact blade should be limited; 4 attacks at 1d10+5 is one thing, 4 attacks with a GWM'ed +2 Greatsword treads too closely to Fighter territory for my liking. (I'm assuming range, reach, and other properties of the weapon means that various weapon feats and magic properties would be usable.)

IMO, either the levelup fighter can handle another class being able to make 4 melee weapon attacks at high level if they choose a specific feature that locks them into a playstyle, or it isn't really an upgrade on the PHB fighter. I would either make this work on the warlock and then figure out if something needs to change in the fighter as a result, or ditch the gish warlock entirely. The worst thing about the phb warlock is that it says that it has an option for warrior-warlocks, but it actually doesn't.

A compromise I'd be willing to make, would be to have the pact of the blade not add ability mod to damage, and/or do a smaller damage die, with perhaps a chart where only two-handed weapons without reach do d10, and everything else ranges from d4 to d8.

But the fighter should have enough other stuff going on in levelup that feat combos aren't nearly as important to it's identity.

2) Eldritch Cannon. Not a big of fan of AoEs with saves as a multi-attack at-will. I feel similarly about Eldritch Spasm from the playtest document, I just don't like forcing multiple saves. Maybe a 30' range 1d8 ranged attack with a 10' push instead (taking the place of Repelling Blast?)

If I could actually get EC onto a survey, and it got shot down, I'd just axe it entirely. No sense in trying to make it something else, IMO. Maybe make it an invocation upgrade to any ranged EB. speaking of which*

I'm trying to decide what sort of attack pattern is best for a bladelock gish; I'm thinking a mix of pact blade attacks and attacks with Eldritch Ray or Eldritch Scythe or Eldritch Whip.

IMO anything like that is too complicated for no meaningful gain. The attack pattern should either be the same as an Eldritch Blast/Ray/Spear blaster, or the same as a warrior class with Extra Attack. You have an attack that you make, and you can make it that many times as an action.

In a bad way?

No, in a good way.

I like! It could be temp hp, advantage on certain rolls, or something like that.

I'd just run it like Summon Beast and the like. HP, AC, damage, etc increase with spell level if you cast it with a spell slot, and those buffs last for x time based on spell slot, before the creature reverts back to it's normal stats.

That's either going to be just like the standard EB reskinned, or too powerful because of its very long range.

Wait, what very long range? The range is either longbow range, which is only greater with a feat, or EB range. It's a force arrow longbow that uses your spellcasting modifier and can benefit from feats and the like. As a class feature, that's far from overpowered.


*So, I'm surprised I'm not seeing any "spend a spell slot as part of using Eldritch Blast to do XYZ, with numbers based on spell power" invocations and other features. I'm surprised actually that such features aren't in the PHB either. Like, heres an at-will ability with EB, and if you spend a spell slot you can increase the number of feat you move the target by ft per spell slot level, or spend a spell slot and deal EB damage to every creature within 5ft of the initial target, increasing the range by spell level, etc.

 

[NotAYakk]

Scythe: 10' range, melee attack, 1d8 damage, you gain temporary HP equal to the damage done that lasts until the end of the Warlock's next turn. If you already have temporary HP when you hit, you deal additional damage equal to 1/2 of the temporary HP you have (max 10).

(You are harvesting life; the 1/2 return helps with multiple attacks. One turn to avoid bag-of-rats, these HP are very temporary.)

1d8+5 (9), 1d8+5+4 (14), 1d8+5+7 (16), 1d8+5+8 (18) damage if everything hits, and you end with 18 temporary HP. If foes don't damage you, you keep on ramping up. It is a damage-dealing mechanism that encourages foes to beat you down.

If you have Armor of Agathys with 20+ temporary HP up, instead you get +10 damage per hit (!); the +10 cap is intended to prevent it diverging.

Originally I had dealing bonus damage remove those temporary HP, but that didn't work well with Armor of Agathys well, which I considered a bad idea.

Ray: As-is

Spasm: Wisdom Save or suffer 1d4 damage and get a Spasm counter until the end of the Warlock's next turn. Whenever you are attacked with a Spasm counter, you lose a Spasm counter, and the attack has advantage.

(counter mechanics are to make multi-attacks do something interesting).

or something to make them less similar.

 

[Faolyn]

Spasm: Wisdom Save or suffer 1d4 damage and get a Spasm counter until the end of the Warlock's next turn. Whenever you are attacked with a Spasm counter, you lose a Spasm counter, and the attack has advantage.

I don't think I understand what you mean here.