D&D 5E Long Rests vs Short Rests

[AnotherGuy]

We tried
1. Standard - Forced a high magic setting which I disliked as a DM, fully powered characters all the time
2. Conversion of SR to LR - Didn't solve the above issues
3. Gritty System - Players were frustrated, hurt verisimilitude, pacing issues
4. Die Roll for Recovery of Abilities tied to Exhaustion - Some players never engaged with the system, overly cautious, numbers were not fair for all levels of play

So now we tied HD to abilities, made the Long Rest a period of 24 hours and introduced a Travel Rest.
Recoveries still occur at SR and LR - no change in the rules there, we just changed the period of the LR. It also doesn't hurt verisimilitude or cause pacing issues the same way the gritty system does.
Tying the use of powers to HD places it firmly in the hands of the players, with a resource already part of the game and is fairly simple. No need to rely on the fickleness of the dice as with (4) above.

All one has to do is (A) decide the level of grittiness for their game with regards to the Travel Rest;
(i) Recharges all hp and HD;
(ii) Recharges all HD only; or
(iii) Recharges 50% Hit Dice (rounded down)

And (B) how does the Exhaustion condition and the like fit into the above recovery.

 

[Horwath]

I'm for long rest as short rest in 5E is not really short.

If they kept short rest from 4E at 5min, that would be a lot better.

Problem with short rest classes is that if you manage to get 1 hr uninterrupted, most of the time that 1hr can be stretched to 8hrs. And if there is not plot hook pressure, most PCs will take long rest instead of short one.

 

[THEMNGMNT]

In the nearly 200 sessions of 5E that I've DM'd I definitely have noticed a tension between short and long rest classes. It's a detriment to the game. In the games I run, it's resulted in short rest classes feeling underpowered compared to long rest classes. So, for my style, I'd like to see all classes balanced around the long rest.

That may not work for other people with different play styles, of course.

I would love to see a version of D&D balanced around encounters (which is basically what the short rest is) but that's not the direction 5E took.

 

[Asisreo]

Opportunity cost. If you end the day with an unspent 5th level spell slot, that’s a 5th level spell you could have cast that day and didn’t, which translates to other resources (like hit points) spent that could have been saved had you cast it.

This is precisely why I love sorcerers. Everyone says "metamagic is too expensive" or "its roughly the same as wizards." But I find that cannibalizing my slots to fuel bigger spells or metamagics are almost always better than having that slot at the end of the day.

I'm quite often left within 1-2 low level spell slots by the end of the day as a mid-level sorcerer, all other resources (besides HP) are practically spent. Which I find highly satisfying...I actually had an epiphany I'd like some opinions about:

Do people dislike Warlocks, Sorcerers, and Monks because their abilities are "too expensive" because they run out before the recharge? If so, that's very interesting! I usually figure getting all of my resources effectively used is a satisfying experience akin to "giving it my all."

It may very well be why these classes are controversial, I love using all of my features/resources because it feels like I was truly efficient. It also helps me standout more without forcing myself in the spotlight in the way of others.

 

[TwoSix]

It may very well be why these classes are controversial, I love using all of my features/resources because it feels like I was truly efficient. It also helps me standout more without forcing myself in the spotlight in the way of others.

I imagine quite a few people find it satisfying to finish a run of encounters with most of their spell slots left, because it means they leveraged their spells well enough to not need them.

Personally, I like characters with a strong at-will offense (or other at-will combat go-to), with a dash of short rest and long rest resources primarily oriented around defense and utility. Hexblade warlocks definitely hit the mark the closest for me, although I've enjoyed sorcerer using twin cantrips as well. Bladesinger wizard also looks interesting once it gets to level 6.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I actually kinda miss the time when combat cantrips didn't exist and magic-users had to think about using their spells even more, and if they ran out they had to actually use a weapon like a peasant!

 

[Vaalingrade]

I actually kinda miss the time when combat cantrips didn't exist and magic-users had to think about using their spells even more, and if they ran out they had to actually use a weapon like a peasant!

I'm very glad I started playing long after that. I play a magical character to be magical, not, again, for a resource minigame.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I'm very glad I started playing long after that. I play a magical character to be magical, not, again, for a resource minigame.

Yes, I too want magical characters to feel magical. To me it's just that magic being plentiful and spammable makes it feel less magical. It becomes just spamming some video gamey glowy pew pew. I prefer magic to be powerful but precious.

 

[tetrasodium]

I actually kinda miss the time when combat cantrips didn't exist and magic-users had to think about using their spells even more, and if they ran out they had to actually use a weapon like a peasant!

Yes, I too want magical characters to feel magical. To me it's just that magic being plentiful and spammable makes it feel less magical. It becomes just spamming some video gamey glowy pew pew. I prefer magic to be powerful but precious.

I agree with this combo..The cantrips are a well meaning thing that tried to address some of the reasons LFQW was so pronounced when casters wet all out. That was a nice thought & laudable goal, but they took away from all types of spellcasters to do it & only made them gapfill for glass cannons leaving every other caster role saddled with underdone spells & overused concentration before going on todesign monsters to thwart the LFQW of past editions & do everything they could to invert it through improvements to martials without noticing or caring that they crossed the point of inversion to LWQF once you combine all the pieces

 

[Neonchameleon]

I agree with this combo..The cantrips are a well meaning thing that tried to address sine if the reasons LFQW was so pronounced when casters wet all out. That was a nice thought & laudable goal, but they took away from all types of spellcasters to do it & only made them gapfill for glass cannons

Not so. The cantrips work on clerics (who are hardly glass cannons) and warlocks (who are only slightly glassier). And alchemists if we're going outside the PHB.

leaving every other caster role saddled with underdone spells & overused concentration before going on todesign monsters to thwart the LFQW of past editions & do everything they could to invert it through improvements to martials without noticing or caring that they crossed the point of inversion to LWQF once you combine all the pieces

The huge thing here is that martials should be winning the combats, all else being equal. If you're trying to balance across all three pillars rather than for just one then spells have a clear and obvious advantage. So the fighter ought to be the strongest combat. The clue's in the name "fighter"