TSR TSR (2) Confirms TSR (3)'s Acquisition of Trademark (Updated!)

Jayson Elliot registered the TSR trademark back in 2011 and used it to launch Gygax Magazine along with Ernie and Luke Gygax. The two Gygax's left the company a few years later after Gary Gygax's (co-founder of TSR (1) back in the 1970s) widow, Gail Gygax, forced the closure of Gygax Magazine. Then, earlier this year, TSR (3) swooped in on the TSR trademark, after Jayson Elliot accidentally let it lapse, as TSR (2) confirms:

We have owned the TSR trademark since 2011. Last year, we missed a filing date, and another company registered it, though we are still using it in commerce. While we could win a lawsuit, we frankly don't have the money to litigate. So, we're licensing it back from them.

As a result, there are two companies now using the name TSR. You can tell when it's us because we're the only ones using the new logo.

They're opening a museum in Lake Geneva at the old TSR house, and we wish them success with it, it's important to celebrate the legacy that Gary Gygax created.

Ernie Gygax, formerly of TSR (1) under Gary Gygax, then working with Jayson Elliot as part of TSR (2), is one of the founders of of TSR (3), and confirmed in his (now infamous) interview --

The other TSR is a licensee because [Jayson Elliot] let it lapse. But he had absolutely ... love for the game and the products. There was no reason to say 'oh you've screwed up, oh it's all ours, ha ha ha ha!' Instead, Justin [LaNasa] came to him and said ... we love that you're doing Top Secret things, we have a much broader goal for the whole thing. But there's no reason for you to stop or even have any troubles. Justin said, I'll take care of the paperwork, you just give me $10 a year, and you put out all this love for old school gaming that you can. And we appreciate that you were there to try and pick up things, and you produced Gygax Magazine, for in its time that you're also working on a game that you love to play ... because Top Secret was Jayson's love, as a young man.

TSR (2), still run by Jayson Elliot, publishes Top Secret, and is not connected to TSR (3) other than now having to license it’s own name from them. TSR (3) has also registered the trademark to Star Frontiers, a game owned by and still currently sold by D&D-owner WotC.

In other news the GYGAX trademark appears to have lapsed.

UPDATE! TSR (2) has decided NOT to license its own name from TSR (3):

Update to our earlier tweet - we will NOT be licensing anything from the new company claiming rights to the TSR logos. We are not working with them in any fashion.

 

[billd91]

I think what happened to Jayson, while he does maintain some culpability for allowing it to lapse, was bad. It feels....oily to me, how it was handled. Just one more thing about this whole new TSR company that does not sit well with me.

Yes, it was totally shady. If I were Jayson, I'd be rethinking who my friends were.

 

[Abstruse]

Meanwhile, a registered trademark only lasts 10 years before it must be renewed. Here's a quote from a patent and IP law website about trademark expiration:

If your trademark is canceled or it expires, it can be still under common law protection, provided that you have continued and continue using it for the same purposes of its original intent. Federal registration, while it confers additional benefits and protection to those established by common law, does not create new rights.

 

[Dausuul]

Copyrights do lapse, but it takes a VERY long time. Life of the author plus 70 years, or either 95 years from first publication or 120 years from creation (whichever comes first) for anonymous or work-for-hire creations. It's a big deal when copyrights lapse and there's actually celebrations called Public Domain Day when new works enter the Public Domain at the start of the year. The big one this year was The Great Gatsby, if you want an idea of how long copyright lasts.

I was aware of that, yes, but I had the terminology wrong (that was what I meant by "expire"). Thanks for the clarification.

So, if I'm understanding correctly, Wizards could sue TSR(N) over the copyrighted logos even though they no longer hold the trademark? If so, it will be interesting to see how they approach the issue. On the one hand, it would make Ernie Gygax look like a martyr to many people, and I can't imagine anyone at Wizards is eager for that kind of publicity. On the other hand, they really won't want to give the impression that they have officially endorsed TSR(N), particularly not with the stinkbombs Gygax dropped in that interview.

They're probably really, really hoping TSR(N) falls apart on its own, which does not seem like an unlikely outcome.

 

[overgeeked]

The question becomes: do people flock to buy up the TSR(3) merch using the copyrighted images of TSR(1)’s logo before WotC(7) sues the pants off TSR(3)? That stuff will be collectors items due to rarity. Maybe buy them up now, hold, then sell on eBay and donate the money to LGBTQ+ causes. And sleep well knowing any money you give to TSR(3) will just be eaten up in legal fees when WOtC(16) inevitably sues them.

 

[Charlaquin]

EDIT: Hit reply before seeing the mod warning to drop the subject. Sorry.

 

[darjr]

The question becomes: do people flock to buy up the TSR(3) merch using the copyrighted images of TSR(1)’s logo before WotC(7) sues the pants off TSR(3)? That stuff will be collectors items due to rarity. Maybe buy them up now, hold, then sell on eBay and donate the money to LGBTQ+ causes. And sleep well knowing any money you give to TSR(3) will just be eaten up in legal fees when WOtC(16) inevitably sues them.

I would not trust an order with them, not now, especially when some of the principals have bitterly complained they can’t get any work done.

 

[imagineGod]

Who said anything about “woke”? That’s baggage you’re bringing to the table, not me. I fully expect that at some point in the future, stuff we enjoy today - likely including the current edition of D&D - will get labeled with disclaimers saying that it is a product of its time and disavowing aspects of it that are no longer considered appropriate. That’s a good thing! It means the culture is calling attention to past wrongs, rather than trying to ignore or excuse them.

We were asked to avoid discussions not related to the trademark. So I will avoid some terms.

But I have noticed people here try to paint this picture that the creator of Dungeons and Dragons is somehow a bad man, and his literature requires warnings, because they choose to judge him by today's standards. Guess we are all bad then, since all our ancestors did things we consider bad today, so we all need content warnings just for being human. In some major religions that is called the original sin.

 

[Dausuul]

I would not trust an order with them, not now, especially when some of the principals have bitterly complained they can’t get any work done.

It really is TSR reborn, isn't it?

 

[Jimmy Dick]

Seriously, does anyone really care about TSR anyway?

 

[Jer]

Seriously, does anyone really care about TSR anyway?

It's nostalgia really. Seeing those old TSR logos makes me want to buy one of those T-shirts. I'm not immune to it!

(And the cover art for GiantLands makes me think of Gamma World - which will always pique my interest).