D&D 5E Starting to Hate Hexblades

[Steampunkette]

Well multiple govenments would spend millions tracking people chucking fireballs at the wall.

"Okay Mister Smith. We are doing ligtning bolts today."

Which is good... but also doesn't mean "Minmaxing"

'Cause here's the real problem with it: We'd be the characters. Not the players.

We wouldn't "Level Up" to level 1 at some point in our lives and pick a class, a feat, our skills, our equipment, etc from a drop-down list that appears to be floating in midair. You wouldn't be able to say "I choose to be a Great Weapon Master!" and have that declaration cause it to just -happen-.

Similarly when level 2 hits we wouldn't be able to go "Y'know, I wanna make a pact with a Fey Being to pick up a few specific class features, and then never again have anything to do with my warlock patron" and it just -happens-.

Leveling up is not a Character-Facing mechanic. It's entirely on the player side of things. We'd never "Figure it out" even if we figured out how everything else kind of works.

Though it is kind of amusing to imagine a "Keen Mind Pre-K Course" that costs $15,000 to enroll your child in so they never forget anything.

Holy crap... Your PARENTS would choose your starting feat... "I want my kid to grow up to be a Doctor" and suddenly your Min-Max build is just thrown away by your parents trying to pick your life for you.

 

[Kurotowa]

People seem to forget that a 1 level dip into warlock has the cost of a deal with a patron. "A warlock is defined by a pact with an otherworldly being." Dipping into hexblade comes with consequences in the RP side of the game - there is something out there that you're obligated to serve.

Using RP downsides to balance mechanical benefits is not a method with a stellar track record. Usually either the player feels unfairly targeted for making a character build choice, or the RP penalty doesn't come up often enough to come close to balancing the mechanical benefit. Neither situation is a good one.

 

[Greg K]

People seem to forget that a 1 level dip into warlock has the cost of a deal with a patron. "A warlock is defined by a pact with an otherworldly being." Dipping into hexblade comes with consequences in the RP side of the game - there is something out there that you're obligated to serve.

I agree that there should be consequences (not that I would allow a player to dip). However, there was recently a discussion in another thread in which a few people argued that DMs should not be involving patrons without approval of the Warlock's player (even if the DM made the terms of the pack known prior to character generation). Several (if not all) of those same indviduals also argued that the player (not the DM) should determine the nature of the pact.

 

[ccs]

I've considered banning any two spell casting classes just because I think the way spells are combined is pretty awful. That and it never made much sense to me, each class has a different source of power. Using warlock slots to power divine spells is kind of like trying to run a gas engine on diesel.

Not sure what the answer is, it just seems like it's always cheesily overpowered or a bad combo that doesn't really work. I allow feats, so if you want eldritch blast or some other spell to enhance your character take the feat.

The mechanical answer is an easy one:
Don't allow spell slots to shared/interact between the classes. You want to be a Paladin/Warlock? Fine.
But you'll track your paladin slots and your warlock slots separately and they aren't affected by the other class.....
I implemented this years ago & have had zero problems with players trying mechanically to abuse caster combos.

 

[Oofta]

The mechanical answer is an easy one:
Don't allow spell slots to shared/interact between the classes. You want to be a Paladin/Warlock? Fine.
But you'll track your paladin slots and your warlock slots separately and they aren't affected by the other class.....
I implemented this years ago & have had zero problems with players trying mechanically to abuse caster combos.

I've considered that as well, I may do it next campaign.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

So just honoring the proud tradition of every edition that included multiclassing.

Pathfinder 2e has a good multiclass system imo. DnD could learn from that.

Even a chain of feats in the current system could work as multiclass alternatives... If feats weren't also done awfully this edition.

 

[clearstream]

I've spent a bit of the afternoon looking at different house rules for feats (in the context of how to allow them but prevent their abuse). I found some pretty interesting ones:

• The DM institutes some kind of banned list or approval process
• No feats are allowed until after 5th level
• If you use Feats, you cannot Multiclass.
• If you Multiclass, you cannot use Feats.

But honestly, it all just feels like more trouble than it's worth. If you have to police something this hard to prevent your players from abusing them, you should consider just not allowing them in the first place. And maybe have a chat with your players about what kind of game you (and they) expect to be playing.

Perhaps make multiclassing itself a feat...

 

[ECMO3]

Even a chain of feats in the current system could work as multiclass alternatives... If feats weren't also done awfully this edition.

There are some bad feats in 5E but overall I think they are done very well. A lot better than the 3E feats with all the subfeats, prerequisites chained feats etc.

I can think of some underpowered feats in 5e, but I can't think of any that are truely awful or overpowered.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

There are some bad feats in 5E but overall I think they are done very well. A lot better than the 3E feats with all the subfeats, prerequisites chained feats etc.

I can think of some underpowered feats in 5e, but I can't think of any that are truely awful or overpowered.

I mean it's more the fact that you have to pick ASI or feats. Fine if it's one of the 'essential' feats like GWM. But if you want a feat for flavour you have to cripple yourself to pick it.

If you want to simulate starting with just one level of fighter as something like a sorcerer, you have to pick 5 feats! Fighting initiate, weapon master, lightly armoured, moderately armoured, heavily armoured. That's all your ability scores lvl 1-19, and you can't take a single ASI for your entire progression.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

the bit that people hate the sitting in the sky and just sniping or stabing just out of reach

Hence, my conjecture that being able to "Fly" does not mean you have the ability to "Hover". Two different things.

Enforce the idea that if you are Flying (due to mechanical means; wings, for example), you are moving forward. If you don't have Hover listed as a movement choice...you can't.

^_^

Paul L. Ming