TSR TSR (2) Confirms TSR (3)'s Acquisition of Trademark (Updated!)

Jayson Elliot registered the TSR trademark back in 2011 and used it to launch Gygax Magazine along with Ernie and Luke Gygax. The two Gygax's left the company a few years later after Gary Gygax's (co-founder of TSR (1) back in the 1970s) widow, Gail Gygax, forced the closure of Gygax Magazine. Then, earlier this year, TSR (3) swooped in on the TSR trademark, after Jayson Elliot accidentally let it lapse, as TSR (2) confirms:

We have owned the TSR trademark since 2011. Last year, we missed a filing date, and another company registered it, though we are still using it in commerce. While we could win a lawsuit, we frankly don't have the money to litigate. So, we're licensing it back from them.

As a result, there are two companies now using the name TSR. You can tell when it's us because we're the only ones using the new logo.

They're opening a museum in Lake Geneva at the old TSR house, and we wish them success with it, it's important to celebrate the legacy that Gary Gygax created.

Ernie Gygax, formerly of TSR (1) under Gary Gygax, then working with Jayson Elliot as part of TSR (2), is one of the founders of of TSR (3), and confirmed in his (now infamous) interview --

The other TSR is a licensee because [Jayson Elliot] let it lapse. But he had absolutely ... love for the game and the products. There was no reason to say 'oh you've screwed up, oh it's all ours, ha ha ha ha!' Instead, Justin [LaNasa] came to him and said ... we love that you're doing Top Secret things, we have a much broader goal for the whole thing. But there's no reason for you to stop or even have any troubles. Justin said, I'll take care of the paperwork, you just give me $10 a year, and you put out all this love for old school gaming that you can. And we appreciate that you were there to try and pick up things, and you produced Gygax Magazine, for in its time that you're also working on a game that you love to play ... because Top Secret was Jayson's love, as a young man.

TSR (2), still run by Jayson Elliot, publishes Top Secret, and is not connected to TSR (3) other than now having to license it’s own name from them. TSR (3) has also registered the trademark to Star Frontiers, a game owned by and still currently sold by D&D-owner WotC.

In other news the GYGAX trademark appears to have lapsed.

UPDATE! TSR (2) has decided NOT to license its own name from TSR (3):

Update to our earlier tweet - we will NOT be licensing anything from the new company claiming rights to the TSR logos. We are not working with them in any fashion.

 

[RFB Dan]

Peter Adkison & Gen Con also put out a statement. I'm wondering if and/or when WotC will need to step in, considering their financial stake in the Star Frontiers brand.

 

[Rob Kuntz]

Peter Adkison & Gen Con also put out a statement. I'm wondering if and/or when WotC will need to step in, considering their financial stake in the Star Frontiers brand.

View attachment 138960

Good grief. Not being known out of the gate is bad enough; but being in a negative news cycle right out of the gate is the worst case scenario. I don't foresee clear sailing ahead as they are already in the shoals.

 

[Umbran]

Even the Pope was sufficiently able to split the work from the man...

The Pope led a moral institution? Never happened.

Mod Note:
Guess what? This thread isn't about the Pope.

Folks were warned about the possible repercussions yesterday. You two should have heeded that warning, and remembered that religious commentary was not appropriate.

So, that's two week-long vacations.

Who wants to be next?

 

[Mistwell]

Thinking of starting TSR (4), can I license the name too?

You might consider just skipping ahead. Go for TSR Vista 2000?

 

[Dausuul]

Way back near the start of this thread, some of us were speculating about whether Wizards would feel it was worth the publicity hit from trying to enforce the copyrights TSR(3) is infringing.

The size of that hit is shrinking rapidly and may well have gone negative by this point.

(I also wonder if they could come to some arrangement with TSR(2) where TSR(2) gives up all claim to the trademark, and in return Wizards allows TSR(2) to continue using the trademark, and then Wizards files suit against TSR(3) for the trademark as well. I don't know if that's even possible, legally speaking, but it would certainly be helpful for Wizards's image.)

 

[MoonSong]

You might consider just skipping ahead. Go for TSR Vista 2000?

I was thinking of starting DZL like TSR but better voiced?

 

[Jer]

(I also wonder if they could come to some arrangement with TSR(2) where TSR(2) gives up all claim to the trademark, and in return Wizards allows TSR(2) to continue using the trademark, and then Wizards files suit against TSR(3) for the trademark as well. I don't know if that's even possible, legally speaking, but it would certainly be helpful for Wizards's image.)

I actually don't think Wizards needs to do anything at all at this point. They don't seem to care about the TSR trademark beyond being able to keep old material in print with the existing logos on it. They also don't seem to care about the Top Secret trademark at all given that they haven't bothered to put the old material up at DriveThru the way they did with Star Frontiers.

Wizards can just sit back and wait for all of this to implode on itself, as it seems to be on its way to doing. They worked pretty hard to separate the image of "D&D" from "TSR" 22 years ago when they bought it (because as much nostalgia as people have for TSR now they certainly didn't have a lot of good things to say about the company then) and likely don't feel the need to wade into this at all at this point.

 

[Parmandur]

I actually don't think Wizards needs to do anything at all at this point. They don't seem to care about the TSR trademark beyond being able to keep old material in print with the existing logos on it. They also don't seem to care about the Top Secret trademark at all given that they haven't bothered to put the old material up at DriveThru the way they did with Star Frontiers.

Wizards can just sit back and wait for all of this to implode on itself, as it seems to be on its way to doing. They worked pretty hard to separate the image of "D&D" from "TSR" 22 years ago when they bought it (because as much nostalgia as people have for TSR now they certainly didn't have a lot of good things to say about the company then) and likely don't feel the need to wade into this at all at this point.

Yeah, I doubt that WotC cares about the TSR name at all. However, if these clowns try to do something with Star Frontiers, the Cease & Desist Orders will probably come on over with no danger of PR fallout.

 

[Parmandur]

Though come to think of it, WotC might want to stop them from using copyrighted imagery that WorC owns, which they have already started doing....

 

[darjr]

Though come to think of it, WotC might want to stop them from using copyrighted imagery that WorC owns, which they have already started doing....

My bet is there is someone working on it. Or will be come Monday.