D&D 5E I thought WotC was removing biological morals?

[Bayushi_seikuro]

Has it been two weeks already? Huh, time really flies nowadays...I guess it is time for another "racial alignment" thread.

But yeah, I don't think this really counts. As others have pointed out, I think the differences here are (1) a redcap is a fey creature, not a humanoid; (2) it is formed, not "born", and (3) it is the physical embodiment of an evil act, not a society at large. A fourth point might be that a Redcap is not intended to be a playable race, but that's only tangent to the topic.

I like this response. Essentially, a redcap is more or less a Murder Elemental the way a fire elemental is of Fire, I think

 

[Bardic Dave]

Has it been two weeks already? Huh, time really flies nowadays...I guess it is time for another "racial alignment" thread.

But yeah, I don't think this really counts. As others have pointed out, I think the differences here are (1) a redcap is a fey creature, not a humanoid; (2) it is formed, not "born", and (3) it is the physical embodiment of an evil act, not a society at large. A fourth point might be that a Redcap is not intended to be a playable race, but that's only tangent to the topic.

Agreed, but the first distinction is paper thin; redcaps are definitely humanoid according to the dictionary definItion if not the game rules. I wouldn’t be overly surprised if perceptions gradually shift over time and creatures like this eventually come to be regarded as problematic, perhaps because of how they could be perceived as demonizing and stereotyping certain mental illnesses (maybe that’s too much of a stretch, idk). I don’t have a horse in this race, just idly speculating.

 

[Doug McCrae]

The myth of the Redcap arises from the atrocities committed along the Border between Scotland and England. Allowing the semi-allegorical embodiment of those atrocities to have the option to be heroic is problematic in a different way.

If we're going to say these creatures should not be inherently evil, then I believe we should not have them included in the game, as allowing them to be "ok" is sending a wrong message as well.

In An Encyclopedia of Fairies (1976), Katharine Briggs describes the Redcap as "one of the most malignant of old Border goblins." However she also mentions a benign variant: "In Perthshire, however, there is a milder Redcap, a little man who lives in a room high up in Grantully Castle and whom it is fortunate to see or hear."

 

[Tonguez]

Agreed, but the first distinction is paper thin; redcaps are definitely humanoid according to the dictionary definItion if not the game rules. I wouldn’t be overly surprised if perceptions gradually shift over time and creatures like this eventually come to be regarded as problematic, perhaps because of how they could be perceived as demonizing and stereotyping certain mental illnesses (maybe that’s too much of a stretch, idk). I don’t have a horse in this race, just idly speculating.

Its more likely I think that just as in real life the fairy nature of Red Caps gets merged with Ghost tales like Bloody Bell, the Red Cap of Dumfries who is a muderous blood drenched ghost. While essentialist Evil humanoids may be problematic, it seems that vengeful murderous spirits are acceptable

SO yeah if Fairy are spirits then I’m happy to think of Red Caps as “Murder Elementals”

 

[Bardic Dave]

SO yeah if Fairy are spirits then I’m happy to think of Red Caps as “Murder Elementals”

Your point is perfectly valid and reasonable, but it doesn’t really address mine. You’re simply presenting an alternative perspective without addressing the elements of the perspective you’re refuting. It’s an acceptable position to have, but it’s not a rebuttal.

To your point, there are similar lines of reasoning for why orcs and drow aren’t problematic which were generally regarded as sufficient ten years ago but which no longer pass muster today. The idea of an insane humanoid (in appearance) murder “elemental” is totally the kind of thing that could come to be seen as problematic in the future. Redcaps come from folklore, just like goblins and elves and dwarves, and are generally regarded as a proxy for the “other”, just like goblins and elves and dwarves. The mechanical qualifier “fae” instead of “humanoid” may not be regarded as a sufficient distinction in the future. We’ll see which way the wind blows.

 

[Charlaquin]

Whilst I don't necessarily think these redcaps are super problematic, that's not why. I really don't think that it matters what the mechanical category is. The racist depiction of orcs wouldn't stop being problematic if they were classified as monstrosities instead of humanoids.

Hmm… I agree with you that the problems with orcs wouldn’t be fixed by making them monstrosities, but I don’t think this redcap entry would be acceptable for a PC race.

 

[Charlaquin]

edit: The caps were red because they were soaked in blood of their victims or those who fell in battle & the redcap would often die if it ever dried out. A non-homicidal redcap is almost a paradox since that would make it something else

I think this is what seals it for me. It’s that being homocidal is part of what makes a redcap a redcap. Much like the “if a Devil stopped being Lawful Evil it would stop being a Devil” thing.

 

[Charlaquin]

Clearly, they should have just made Orcs and Drow be fey as well.

I do actually like the idea of Fey drow. Orcs are definitely humanoids. You could give them Fey Ancestry at most, IMO.

 

[Lanefan]

... Murder Elemental ...

Thanks to this, I think my setting just added a new type of Elemental. Love it!!!

 

[Charlaquin]

I like this response. Essentially, a redcap is more or less a Murder Elemental the way a fire elemental is of Fire, I think

Murder Elemental is such a perfect description of redcaps, I love it!