D&D 5E Ability Score Increases (I've changed my mind.)

[the Jester]

True, but I can how slippery that slope is. After all, many aristocrats felt that they were superior to others based on their "noble blood" alone.

Take that, apply it to an entire race of people about their views of other "races".... it quickly gets bad. Even if you add in a concept like "Noblesse Oblige" which is basically "I'm better than you, therefore my responsibilities are to protect and aid you" that gets very paternalistic and can quickly slide into very bad places.


I'm not saying it has to, but it certainly teeters on the precipice of a deep gorge.

I kind of lean into this. Part of the fun of D&D is, Legolas and Gimli style, first establishing and then undermining the assumptions each race tends to hold toward each other, and therefore the assumptions that underlie racism as a world view, whether through the actions of pcs or npcs. I think you can have racism and prejudice in your game and depict it in such a way that it's not seen sympathetically. Likewise, you can have slavery in your game without supporting slavery, and without depicting it as a good thing. Especially when it's explicitly not all members of the race that are racist (and especially when it's never forced on pcs).

 

[Maxperson]

When playing against "type", I would rather have a "faction" define the type, rather than an entire race.

You can do that. But that doesn't make racial types a bad thing. Why not have both? That way you can play against the types you like to, and others can play against the types they like to.

 

[Scott Christian]

Some of D&D perpetuates reallife racist memes. But not all of it.

It is possible, maybe even easy, to doublecheck the narratives and mechanics that seem concerning.

No, here is what you said:

Racism is the worldview that D&D fantasizes about.

So this fictional game is a play about racist assumptions.

It is like a game about: "pretend that all of these unjust ideas are true".

These literary tropes already did determine how we play the game.

We made a game about their racism.

This implies it is embedded. Hence, my tear the house down statement.

But I get it. You want racism gone from D&D and are confused as to how to do it. Many are in that boat. There is another boat where people don't see D&D as inherently racist. And then here is another boat, one that wants to keep racism. We all agree that boat should sink.

 

[Yaarel]

The point of udadrow, aevendrow, and lorendrow, seems to be, it is the "faction" or local culture that defines a type. Not a race or subrace.

You can do that. But that doesn't make racial types a bad thing. Why not have both? That way you can play against the types you like to, and others can play against the types they like to.

 

[PsyzhranV2]

Yes. I'm aware that people often imagine real life connections that don't exist. Some very few rare connections are there, like the Vistani, but for the most part they don't. They see some obscure similarity to something and immediately see that as the absolute reason the designer put it into the game.

Must be convenient, to be able to dismiss textual criticism just like that. But how can you be so certain?

 

[Yaarel]

No, here is what you said:

This implies it is embedded. Hence, my tear the house down statement.

But I get it. You want racism gone from D&D and are confused as to how to do it. Many are in that boat. There is another boat where people don't see D&D as inherently racist. And then here is another boat, one that wants to keep racism. We all agree that boat should sink.

D&D has deep mechanics and other mechanics that are organized by the deep mechanics.

Abilities, class, race, maybe skills and feats, are part of the deep mechanics, probably in that order.

In the sense, that race is a fundamental mechanic it effects every other aspect of the game, including setting narratives, tropes, and memes.

However, it is possible to tweak the mechanics and narratives of the races themselves, thus remedy their impact on the rest of the game.

 

[Maxperson]

Must be convenient, to be able to dismiss textual criticism just like that. But how can you be so certain?

If it isn't blatant, then certainty cannot be had on either side of the issue. Without certainty, assuming the worst is the worst way to go about it. You should never assume someone or something is racist. Either be certain about it or don't make the accusation.

 

[Yaarel]

[Cosmic force in Xanathars]: I hope so. That was a good option.

I appreciate that.

 

[Argyle King]

The point of udadrow, aevendrow, and lorendrow, seems to be, it is the "faction" or local culture that defines a type. Not a race or subrace.

This isn't necessarily directed at you; you're comment simply brought thoughts to mind.

In a game where Drow are a subset of Elf...
Drow currently have mechanical features, cultural features, and physical features as categories of features which mark them as being different from the standard Elf.

So, in a game where Drow are a subset of Elf...
This thread (and others) advocate for removing the differentiating mechanical features.
Upcoming books advocate for removing the differentiating cultural features.
There exists advocacy (some of which I understand and support) for widening the range of physical features for the category of Elf (to include features which are traditionally associated with the subcategory of Drow).

What remains as the defining features for saying that Drow -as a subcategory of Elf- exists?

Personally, if the only thing remaining to identify "Drow" is skin tone, I think that ends up being more racist and worse than currently identified issues. "Drow" almost becomes a racial slur at that point.

 

[Scott Christian]

D&D has deep mechanics and other mechanics that are organized by the deep mechanics.

Abilities, class, race, maybe skills and feats, are part of the deep mechanics, probably in that order.

In the sense, that race is a fundamental mechanic it effects every other aspect of the game, including setting narratives, tropes, and memes.

However, it is possible to tweak the mechanics and narratives of the races themselves, thus remedy their impact on the rest of the game.

Fair enough. I get that you see it that way.

That was why I came up with a solution: let players choose their attributes. Add it to the roll, point buy or standard array options. If you do, you can dismiss Tasha's and let individual tables decide on how best to play. Want those 20 strength halflings - use the choose option. Want random fate - choose roll. Want balance - choose standard array. Want the game of manipulating dials - choose point buy.