Paizo Jessica Price (ex Paizo employee) spills the beans

[Sacrosanct]

I understand seeing Price as a perhaps untrustworthy narrator, she certainly can be aggressive on Social Media. That makes this a bit stronger to me, though, because despite not being particularly trusting of her in general my gut says this all true.

I agree it's true. But because what the others have said. Not what she said. Not only because of her track record, but her very first tweet on this issue was wrong, inflammatory, and accusatory of things that DIDN'T happen. Misspeak or not.

 

[Gradine]

She has a history of calling things sexist when they aren't (like someone simply disagreeing with her)

You have so far brought up a single example, which was her calling out sexism and raising a stink with sexists who got her fired for calling out sexism. You can disagree that the things she calls sexist are actually sexist or not. She is not, on the other hand, being insincere.

How many times does someone "misspeak" before it's a pattern? If this was one time? Maybe. But she had done this before. Also, accusations of sexism or racism are serious. She shouldn't be throwing those around unless she knows for sure. Especially with her track record. So I have less benefit of the doubt there.

Accusations of lying are also serious, and yet you have no problem doing the same because you happen to have a different definition of a word than her. And again, you have not shown any actual examples that she has lied about sexism in the past. At all. Put up or shut up.

 

[Parmandur]

She has a history of calling things sexist when they aren't (like someone simply disagreeing with her)

How many times does someone "misspeak" before it's a pattern? If this was one time? Maybe. But she had done this before. Also, accusations of sexism or racism are serious. She shouldn't be throwing those around unless she knows for sure. Especially with her track record. So I have less benefit of the doubt there.

She has a history of getting into fights on Twitter, but I think it's pretty clear at this point that being so aggressive is partly a response to having worked in toxic environments for so long. Which is understandable.

 

[Justice and Rule]

Do you remember that scene from Clerks about the independent contractors working on the Second Death Star? I think it fits in boycott situations.
In general, if there's a bad company where the leadership from top-down is toxic, then I have no qualms about not supporting them. It will eventually free the lower end employees from that environment.
I'm not saying that I wish ill for Paizo or its employees. I'm saying that if I decide to not purchase a certain fast food chicken, I'm not making that choice to harm the hourly workers.

I'm not saying that's not a valid choice, because it is. I'm just saying the issue is complex. I mean, I'm threatening to drop my own subscription as is. Ultimately I hope that they get off their a**es and make a change before I do.

Plus, there's a noticeable tendency for women to get far more pushback and demands of evidence then men. There's even a term for this: Holdo-ing.

Wow, something lasting from TLJ. I didn't like that plotline, but at least it has become of some greater use to the world.

 

[Sacrosanct]

And I believe you. But you are the one who decided to bring Price's believability up and drag her name through the mud, when the reality is that she has actually done nothing to engender such distrust, if not agreement.

This is where we disagree, because she HAS done something to engender distrust. False accusations in the past, and then the original tweet again here with false accusations or information.

Fool me once...

This seems to be a pattern with her, so all I'm saying is that if someone keeps making false claims, I'm gonna get my confirmation from others before automatically trusting you.

 

[TheAlkaizer]

Just say what you mean. You're upset about the dreaded ... cancel culture!

I don't think the issue is so said cancel culture. If you do bad things, go to court and are found guilty then I'm probably not going to want to work with you for a while. I think it's just that twitter threads like that are such a poor medium. A well laid out post, with corroborations and a timeline with a hint of journalistic professionalism would make denunciations like this much more accessible, easy to read and to process.

I do too, but not because of anything Price said, but I'm basing my opinion on what everyone else is saying. I'm sorry, but Price has a history of being untruthful and trying to make everything sexist when it isn't.

Exactly. I think most of what she's saying is most likely true, but with her history I tend to wait for corroboration to see what's true, what's an exaggeration and what's not true.

Oh, I just realized you were referencing that time a bunch of Gamergate trolls yelled at ArenaNET about Jessica Price speaking up about sexism in the games industry which led to her being fired, an event most of the games community outside (I mean outside of r/KIA, so more accurately the reasonable gaming community) saw as an incredibly cowardly deferring to loud angry sexists and a loss for efforts at making the industry more inclusive.

That's not at all what happened with the ArenaNet fiasco. She was fired for unprofessional behavior towards a working partner of ArenaNet AND a member of community that approached her very casually and respectfully and she snapped at him and made some very general sexist comments that had absolutely nothing to do with her interactions with him. Following that, obviously, she got swamped under tons and tons of hateful message from the part of the video game community we'd prefer not to engage with. I work in the industry, and if one of my employees (man or woman) replied like she did on twitter or something while proudly representing the company, there would be some serious discipline.

That being said, you're entirely right in saying that there's sexism at every level in the industry and that the backlash that she received (hateful messages, threats, insults) is not right and something that keeps happening.

Erik Mona's displaying of esoteric white supremacist symbols was particularly squiggly to me, personally.

That's the most disturbing thing to me. All the other things are bad, but this one really doesn't sit well with me.

 

[Gradine]

She has a history of getting into fights on Twitter, but I think it's pretty clear at this point that being so aggressive is partly a response to having worked in toxic environments for so long. Which is understandable.

I think the main point here is that the anger is entirely justified

 

[payn]

Erik Mona's displaying of esoteric white supremacist symbols was particularly squiggly to me, personally.

Wait...what!?

 

[ReshiIRE]

Do you remember that scene from Clerks about the independent contractors working on the Second Death Star? I think it fits in boycott situations.

I mean... I get the point you are making but...

They... they were working on the Death Star...

Death. Star.

I never found the that scene particularly compelling...

To keep the offtopic posts to a minimum:

Wow, something lasting from TLJ. I didn't like that plotline, but at least it has become of some greater use to the world.

I thought the plotline was fine but neeed one extra element; a spy in the midst, perhaps, to make the secrecy more justified to everyone aboard (not just Poe, who I think did deserve mistrust).

 

[Gradine]

This is where we disagree, because she HAS done something to engender distrust. False accusations in the past, and then the original tweet again here with false accusations or information.

Fool me once...

This seems to be a pattern with her, so all I'm saying is that if someone keeps making false claims, I'm gonna get my confirmation from others before automatically trusting you.

She hasn't. She hasn't at all and the fact that you can't name an actual example speaks volumes.

I mean, at this point, I could argue that you have a history of false accusations and lying about female creators lying about sexism, so I ought to be skeptical of anything you say. Which is patently ridiculous but also is a stronger argument than the one you're making