Paizo Jessica Price (ex Paizo employee) spills the beans

[Gradine]

re: the Cole article

Setting aside the part where he talks about how the whole thing is his personal opinion/perspective and shouldn't be taken as gospel; the part where he talks about his own personal vendetta against the person for an unrelated earlier incident (and glossing over the troubling if not "dancing-over-the-grave-of" past of the victim in general); y'all are putting an awful lot of stock in an article that references Alex Jones.

(I joke, it's actually a pretty good example of an opinion piece where the writer acknowledges their own biases; but it is also quite wrong and lacks a perspective as I've already explained upthread and will not again because the Mod warning was like two and a half pages ago*.)

*new page edit: now three!

 

[Malmuria]

Without specifics, I have no clue what to even say about this. If you are going to say that something isn't true, you have to say what, otherwise it comes off as trying to cast doubt on it all. If there is something wrong, then say what you know is wrong. At this point, there's no reason to be vague about it.

Yeah...like, is she lying about them not getting hotel rooms for trans women? Or is she lying about her vacuum being broken? These are important details...

 

[Justice and Rule]

Yeah...like, is she lying about them not getting hotel rooms for trans women? Or is she lying about her vacuum being broken? These are important details...

Exactly. Like, if you are going to say someone is lying, just telling me anonymously that something they said isn't right but not telling me what does me no favors and just angers me. I'd like to believe it's not meant as a trolling or discrediting tactic, but it sure comes off as one.

 

[darjr]

Looks like Lu left a while ago but that was still triggered, maybe loosely, by what lead to Sara getting fired.

 

[Ancalagon]

Without specifics, I have no clue what to even say about this. If you are going to say that something isn't true, you have to say what, otherwise it comes off as trying to cast doubt on it all. If there is something wrong, then say what you know is wrong. At this point, there's no reason to be vague about it.



You know, I subscribed to TB for a long time, but his help in giving GG credibility was unconscionable and always poorly-considered. To me, it always came off as being out of ego, and him tossing his credibility to a nascent hate movement honestly should not be forgotten. I never wanted the man to die nor would I celebrate his death, but I suppose if I were a women in gaming on the internet, I might not be so inclined to be so kind.

I concur about the not saying what specific accusation is untrue. Without specifics... a grain of salt indeed!

As far as TB, I don't know who that is so

 

[Sacrosanct]

Exactly. Like, if you are going to say someone is lying, just telling me anonymously that something they said isn't right but not telling me what does me no favors and just angers me. I'd like to believe it's not meant as a trolling or discrediting tactic, but it sure comes off as one.

"I am an anonymous poster. I am not management. At all. I swear. Pinky Promise. Nope. Not me."

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

I guess to me the next question is "what can be done"?

Waiting for the jurisdiction settling labor law disputes in their place of employment to determine the exact extent of the problem and offer adequte compensation. Even if the US doesn't seem to be a pro-worker country, it's not a failed state either and I am pretty sure some of the facts mentionned in the thread (like the health hazard at the workplace, or pro-harrassment stance from the management) are certainly ground for a lawsuit that will establish the exact extent of responsabilities. Then I'll have enough information to actually "do" something, if needed.

 

[thirdkingdom]

For those catching up, Phrenology was a cornerstone of Scientific Racism. We like to think of it as funny head bump reading these days but its history is inextricably tied to white supremacy.

There's a really good episode of Behind the Bastards about how incredibly racist and awful Phrenology is.

 

[Justice and Rule]

I concur about the not saying what specific accusation is untrue. Without specifics... a grain of salt indeed!

I mean, I'm willing to entertain the idea, but you gotta tell me what's what first. Otherwise, what am I supposed to do?

As far as TB, I don't know who that is so

John Bain, aka TotalBiscuit. He was a popular YouTuber who was well-known for courting controversy and taking gaming companies to task for bad practices. Unfortunately he took the whole "ethics in gaming journalism" stuff literally and fell in with the GG crowd, giving them a whole bunch of credibility. I think his story is complicated (and a good version of it can be found here), and ultimately he died very young at 34 from bowel cancer. But suffice to say while some might find Jessica's comments about his death uncouth, I can totally understand why someone might make them.

"I am an anonymous poster. I am not management. At all. I swear. Pinky Promise. Nope. Not me."

 

[Umbran]

Disgruntled ex-employee takes to Twitter to retaliate for being termed. What am I missing here?

Mod Note:
You are missing Morrus' previous note:

"...this thread is not about the personal character of Jessica Price, and is not going to be."

Please embrace that edict going forward.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

Wow! Just wow!!!

I had always thought that Paizo was leading the way in terms of being a progressive RPG company. Based on what Jessica Price has written, that seems to be about as far from the truth as possible.

Some of this stuff seems comparable with the whole TSR3/Ernie Gygax/Justin LaNasa dumpster fire, which is something I never thought I'd say about Paizo and has me questioning whether I'd ever want to buy a product from them again. That's not a decision I'd take lightly either.

 

[mythago]

Waiting for the jurisdiction settling labor law disputes in their place of employment to determine the exact extent of the problem and offer adequte compensation. Even if the US doesn't seem to be a pro-worker country, it's not a failed state either and I am pretty sure some of the facts mentionned in the thread (like the health hazard at the workplace, or pro-harrassment stance from the management) are certainly ground for a lawsuit that will establish the exact extent of responsabilities. Then I'll have enough information to actually "do" something, if needed.

Am I understanding this correctly: we can't give any credence to complaints about a workplace unless and until the complaining employees have won a civil lawsuit against their employer, or a regulatory agency has successfully issued a citation against it?

 

[darjr]

Wow! Just wow!!!

I had always thought that Paizo was leading the way in terms of being a progressive RPG company. Based on what Jessica Price has written, that seems to be about as far from the truth as possible.

Some of this stuff seems comparable with the whole TSR3/Ernie Gygax/Justin LaNasa dumpster fire, which is something I never thought I'd say about Paizo and has me questioning whether I'd ever want to buy a product from them again. That's not a decision I'd take lightly either.

It’s…. More complicated than that.

As a whole Paizo has led the way in many ways. Paizo is also a collection of people some of who might have done things differently if it were up to them alone. Some it seems even tried.

 

[Malmuria]

Even if the US doesn't seem to be a pro-worker country,

The last couple of years have shown us what we already knew: it's an anti-worker country

 

[Retreater]

A link to a statement by Jeff Alvarez, Paizo President.

paizo.com - Forums / Paizo: General Discussion: Staff Change Update from Paizo President Jeff Alvarez

paizo.com

 

[Gradine]

Am I understanding this correctly: we can't give any credence to complaints about a workplace unless and until the complaining employees have won a civil lawsuit against their employer, or a regulatory agency has successfully issued a citation against it?

"Only a court of law, the only real arbiter of truth can do anything about this" is a well known and rather pointless attempt at derailing any conversion about real harm or positive change and isn't really worth responding to.

 

[Parmandur]

A link to a statement by Jeff Alvarez, Paizo President.

paizo.com - Forums / Paizo: General Discussion: Staff Change Update from Paizo President Jeff Alvarez

paizo.com

Oh, boy, reading the responses. This vapidity is not going over well with the posters there.

 

[Malmuria]

A link to a statement by Jeff Alvarez, Paizo President.

paizo.com - Forums / Paizo: General Discussion: Staff Change Update from Paizo President Jeff Alvarez

paizo.com

this does not appear to be going well for them...

*edit: crossposted with @Parmandur 's similar reaction!

 

[ReshiIRE]

A link to a statement by Jeff Alvarez, Paizo President.

paizo.com - Forums / Paizo: General Discussion: Staff Change Update from Paizo President Jeff Alvarez

paizo.com

Shameful post from Paizo's President.

I think my guilt from buying recent posts is being replaced by anger at how the great creative staff at Paizo are being led not only by abusive, dishonest and nasty people, but cowards too.

I commented there as well. Ironically, Paizo has managed to gather a community that will call them on their naughty word and yet ironically have not realised this themselves.

 

[darjr]

Now is not the time to say “we’ll be better” it’s the time to be better now. As someone in that thread said. I think that is fantastic advise all around.