D&D 5E Unearthed Arcana: Travelers of the Multiverse

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Looks like Spelljammer and/or Planescape is back on the menu!

 

[Parmandur]

Honestly, given how long 5E's playtests went, I'd call it a failure. 5E went through a huge playtest phase, and 4E and Beastmaster were the only two that really stood out as having these issues

For sure, but it's a testament to the Edition that those are the worst design failures on the Class side of the equation.

 

[ad_hoc]

Honestly, given how long 5E's playtests went, I'd call it a failure. 5E went through a huge playtest phase, and 4E and Beastmaster were the only two that really stood out as having these issues

Assassin has the same problem and shouldn't be in the game.

I had an Assassin player in my first game of 5e and this was his first RPG experience.

He played a few sessions and quit and has never tried an RPG since.

Assassin is an option to choose so he was expecting being able to play as an assassin. Instead what he got was a party based adventure game where his ability is to gain advantage when he wins initiative.

As this was my first time with the game I was learning as we went and didn't have the forethought to warn him about how it will actually play.

A party based adventure game is just not a good fit for an assassin. In a typical game you're not going to have 1 player sneaking around on their own into people's bedrooms to kill them. It's just not that kind of game.

 

[Parmandur]

No, because Other 1/3rd casters don't cannibalize their spell slots for subpar return! The result is a monk that can't "monk" AND can't really cast - it's quite frustrating. That's the key problem - the double draw on a single resource for subpar return.



What is the "intended" playstyle that will make the 4e monk play ok? if you've already posted it, sorry it's a long thread - please direct me to that post.

1/2 Caster, not a 1/3 Caster: the Ki value of the 4E is equal to the Spell Slots of Paladin, Ranger or Artificer, if the Monk gets the expected Shoet Rests, more than an Wldritch Knifht or Arcane Trickster. Any Monk that doesn't get 2 Short Rests a day is being held back, so a game without Shoet Rests is a problem for all Monks.

The intended playstyle is using those Spells instead of the other Monk Ki options. Ki powers are not all that a Monk gets, for thst matter, the main chasis bears a lot of the design weight

 

[Mort]

1/2 Caster, not a 1/3 Caster: the Ki value of the 4E is equal to the Spell Slots of Paladin, Ranger or Artificer, if the Monk gets the expected Shoet Rests, more than an Wldritch Knifht or Arcane Trickster. Any Monk that doesn't get 2 Short Rests a day is being held back, so a game without Shoet Rests is a problem for all Monks.

Right 1/2 caster - that's even worse, not better! Monks tend to be Ki starved, especially at the early levels (even with proper short rests) and this subclass is the most Ki starved while being far from the most effective!

The intended playstyle is using those Spells instead of the other Monk Ki options. Ki powers are not all that a Monk gets, for thst matter, the main chasis bears a lot of the design weight

So the intended playstyle is a monk that can't really "monk?" A subclass that actively fights with and hinders the main class? How on earth, is that not terrible design!

Again, compare to shadow monk or the later introduced way of mercy for a much better designed subclass both as far playability and supporting/enhancing the main class.

 

[Parmandur]

Right 1/2 caster - that's even worse, not better! Monks tend to be Ki starved, especially at the early levels (even with proper short rests) and this subclass is the most Ki starved while being far from the most effective!


So the intended playstyle is a monk that can't really "monk?" A subclass that actively fights with and hinders the main class? How on earth, is that not terrible design!

Again, compare to shadow monk or the later introduced way of mercy for a much better designed subclass both as far playability and supporting/enhancing the main class.

Monks aren't all about Ki: a 4E Monk still has good HP, great AC, has a body that is a Magic weapon, etc. Most core Monk abilities are not in Ki, as they are built as 1/2 Casters. 4E just uses that 1/2 Casting for full on Magic.

 

[humble minion]

Without reading the last 10 pages, can anyone tell me how the Spelljammer multiverse traveller races UA thread morphed into a discussion of whether the 4 element monk playtesting was adequate?

 

[teitan]

It's not Planescape because even though the Gith and most of the Planetouched are covered (they could do with some revisions though to Tieflings/Aasimar/Genasi, which might in Mordenkainen's Monsters of the Multiverse), there isn't a Bariaur or Rogue Modron race in this one.

Was rogue modron a Planescape race? I don't remember them being an option but I got out of AD&D2e around 98 and that included my Planescape collections (10000000 regrats)

 

[humble minion]

Was rogue modron a Planescape race? I don't remember them being an option but I got out of AD&D2e around 98 and that included my Planescape collections (10000000 regrats)

They certainly were at some point, though i don't remember whether it was in the core box set.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

Was rogue modron a Planescape race? I don't remember them being an option but I got out of AD&D2e around 98 and that included my Planescape collections (10000000 regrats)

Planewalkers Handbook

 

[Charlaquin]

The 4e element abilities are not "very powerful" For example, they could spend 5 ki at 17th level to get.... stoneskin. That's a bad spell when casters get it at level 7, let alone ten levels later.

And it is like that for every ability, all of them come on far far too late. And the costs are egregious.

I mean, such is the life of a half-caster. Ranger and Paladin spells are also pretty bad for the levels you get them at, Paladins just don’t care because they spend their slots on Smite instead. (Of course, Monks likewise spend their Ki on Flurry of Blows and Stunning Strike instead of spells, so…)

If we assumed that Ki points = spell points then move from there (which is an assumption you did make) then a half-caster at level 17 should have 57 daily points. Now, monks may only have 17 but that refreshes on a short rest right? So, surely we just need to have... (doing basic math) 3 to 4 short rests every single day.

You should only need the expected two short rests, actually, provided you’re spending all of your Ki between each rest (which you should be). 17 points at the beginning of the day + 17 more after the first short rest, + 17 more after the second = 51. That is a little under the half-caster’s 57, but a third short rest would put them well above it. As it stands they’re short two 2nd level spells per day instead of ahead the two 3rd level spells they would be ahead by with three short rests.

You also picked a level where the difference is at its greatest - at even-numbered levels the gap closes because monks gain Ki every level while half-casters only gain spell points every other level. And at lower levels the difference is less significant. Heck, at 6th level the monk effectively has 18 Ki per day while a half-caster only has 14 spell points.