D&D 5E Unearthed Arcana: Travelers of the Multiverse

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Looks like Spelljammer and/or Planescape is back on the menu!

 

[Parmandur]

4 Elements has been noted as the most ki-starved subclass in the game for years now? It and the Beastmaster have always been seen as the weakest two from the base game and they've always been the two attention has been put to. Beastmaster got semi-fixed come Tasha's, but 4 Elements didn't get anything for the fact it needs a lot more ki than what it gets

Now, Sun Soul on the other hand I would hardly call a fix given its specially also noted as weak. Its trying at more of a Goku idea than a Zuko, but it.... Doesn't really do that all that well either

Mike Mearls clarified back when that the Sun Soul was the "fix" for 4E, as it provided what they learned many people wanted from the 4E, which worked out mathematically and in WotC playtests precisely as they intended it to.

It is not "underpowered," it works fine in play when played as intended, their problem was not correctly anticipating what people would want to do.

 

[overgeeked]

It is 1/2 Caster with two Short Rests, actually, and any Monk who isn't getting two short rests is being...shortchanged...as it stands. Same as any Warlock.

That's why short rests should be an action.

 

[abirdcall]

4 Elements has been noted as the most ki-starved subclass in the game for years now? It and the Beastmaster have always been seen as the weakest two from the base game and they've always been the two attention has been put to. Beastmaster got semi-fixed come Tasha's, but 4 Elements didn't get anything for the fact it needs a lot more ki than what it gets

Now, Sun Soul on the other hand I would hardly call a fix given its specially also noted as weak. Its trying at more of a Goku idea than a Zuko, but it.... Doesn't really do that all that well either

Beastmaster and Sun Soul are both underrated.

Beastmaster is powerful enough it's just the problem for people is that the beast is a defensive tool and not an offensive one. And people who choose beastmaster mostly want an offensive beast and so it fails at its design goal. So I would agree it's poorly designed but wouldn't agree that it isn't powerful.

Sun Soul is on the weaker side but still within the range to be a fine choice. People underestimate their Burning Hands as it is a Bonus Action though it really should be Radiant. The Radiant Sun Bolts could likewise use some improvements such as ignoring cover. Still, the idea is there. It is the right implementation of 4E just could be a tad stronger.

 

[Parmandur]

That's why short rests should be an action.

That's a bit of a blindspot of the rules, but they have mostly worked out when the veer, Pretzels, and dice have been busted out for 7 years.

I think they have been signaling that they are replacing Short Rest mechanics with Proficiency Die based mechanics for this very reason.

 

[Parmandur]

Beastmaster and Sun Soul are both underrated.

Beastmaster is powerful enough it's just the problem for people is that the beast is a defensive tool and not an offensive one. And people who choose beastmaster mostly want an offensive beast and so it fails at its design goal. So I would agree it's poorly designed but wouldn't agree that it isn't powerful.

Sun Soul is on the weaker side but still within the range to be a fine choice. People underestimate their Burning Hands as it is a Bonus Action though it really should be Radiant. The Radiant Sun Bolts could likewise use some improvements such as ignoring cover. Still, the idea is there. It is the right implementation of 4E just could be a tad stronger.

The end of your second paragraph is what I'm getting at: the problem with the 4E, same as Beastmaster, is they designed for the wrong end, not that it doesn't do what the designers intended. The math works out...when used right.

The real major failure of the Beastmaster, too, is making the beast co.panion weak and disposable, rather than an intimate and protected feature.

 

[abirdcall]

They still have the core abilities to hit things real good and avoid being hit or hurt. The math works out better in play than in theorycrafting.

You still haven't addressed what I said.

I will say that the Monk subclasses are relatively minor and the main class does most of the heavy lifting.

So no matter what subclass you choose your character will be fine.

It's just kind of a bummer that if you cast your spells you then don't have the Ki to use your Monk abilities or vice versa.

 

[Parmandur]

You still haven't addressed what I said.

I will say that the Monk subclasses are relatively minor and the main class does most of the heavy lifting.

So no matter what subclass you choose your character will be fine.

It's just kind of a bummer that if you cast your spells you then don't have the Ki to use your Monk abilities or vice versa.

Agreed, and their mistake was in designing a Subclass that required that. If someone wants to be a Bender in place of the core Monk Ki abilities, however, it works out well. Which someone internally must have wanted, which is how it got through internal playtesting.

 

[abirdcall]

Agreed, and their mistake was in designing a Subclass that required that. If someone wants to be a Bender in place of the core Monk Ki abilities, however, it works out well. Which someone internally must have wanted, which is how it got through internal playtesting.

I think at one point it had a few special elemental attacks that were bonus actions which would allow you to do Monk attacks and elemental attacks at the same time.

There was even a bonus action in the 1st printing which was deemed a typo.

And now with the Sun Soul as the 'fix' we have a bonus action elemental attack.

If the original 4E had different elemental effects to use as a bonus action I would be on board.

 

[Chaosmancer]

As I recall, the spread was 75-25 in favor of the standard human. "Some" might be the most appropriate modifier, rather than "many."

And still is just a nitpick over terms, instead of addressing the actual point in any possible way.

 

[Parmandur]

And still is just a nitpick over terms, instead of addressing the actual point in any possible way.

This is the way.