D&D 5E Unearthed Arcana: Travelers of the Multiverse

New free content from WotC - the latest 4-page Unearthed Arcana introduces six new races: astral elf, autognome, giff, hadozee, plasmoid, and thri-kreen.

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Looks like Spelljammer and/or Planescape is back on the menu!

 

[ad_hoc]

you're trying to be the avatar, you would need a full caster for that as a start

You contribute to the party (which is every option in the game)
And you are a monk who does things with the 4 elements.

I've never seen avatar and D&D is not an anime game so I don't think it is fair to say a subclass fails because it doesn't replicate anime. People who haven't seen that show (movie?) Could still play a 4E monk.

 

[Parmandur]

The problem is that they're gaining options with their Ki but using those options means they lose use of their monk options which they already had.

Open Hand gives add on effects for free.

Shadow at level 3 gives discounted level 2 spells that are useful outside of combat so not competing with monk actions in combat. And then also gives them a great free ability at level 6 which improves their monk abilities.

4E just eats into their Ki. That is why it is poorly designed.

Sun soul on the other hand gives them extra things to do. It could be better but the design ideas behind it are there.

Imagine a Paladin or Ranger subclass that only gave them additional spells known. No extra slots. No abilities. Just more options for the power they already have. It would be much worse than their other subclasses which give them more things.

It balances put by allowing very powerful abilities to be used with Ki, which is a renewable resource mind you.

It doesn't work out the way a lot of people want it to, but it does actually work just fine. Put another way, it works as designed, but it was not designed to hit the right feel that people wanted.

 

[ad_hoc]

It balances put by allowing very powerful abilities to be used with Ki, which is a renewable resource mind you.

It doesn't work out the way a lot of people want it to, but it does actually work just fine. Put another way, it works as designed, but it was not designed to hit the right feel that people wanted.

The abilities aren't discounted though. A fireball at level 11 is just not impressive. Fly at level 11 is also not impressive esp. on a Monk who has movement abilities already.

You're completely ignoring that they aren't actually gaining anything here because they are losing their Monk abilities by casting spells.

If they got spells they could cast that didn't cost Ki I'd be with you. But they don't (except for a couple cantrips).

 

[Chaosmancer]

Just that you said many people pick the Variant over the standard, when we know the standard Himan is the single most popular choice in the game.

And many people do pick the variant over the standard. It isn't like it is 5% of the humans played, a significant number of people play the variant human. My tables use it exclusively.

So, nit picked over trying to make "many" into "majority" but it still doesn't address the actual point.

 

[Chaosmancer]

It balances put by allowing very powerful abilities to be used with Ki, which is a renewable resource mind you.

It doesn't work out the way a lot of people want it to, but it does actually work just fine. Put another way, it works as designed, but it was not designed to hit the right feel that people wanted.

The 4e element abilities are not "very powerful" For example, they could spend 5 ki at 17th level to get.... stoneskin. That's a bad spell when casters get it at level 7, let alone ten levels later.

And it is like that for every ability, all of them come on far far too late. And the costs are egregious. If we assumed that Ki points = spell points then move from there (which is an assumption you did make) then a half-caster at level 17 should have 57 daily points. Now, monks may only have 17 but that refreshes on a short rest right? So, surely we just need to have... (doing basic math) 3 to 4 short rests every single day.

And the average number of short rests people have per day? 1 to 2. Which makes them closer to third casters, only without cantrips, and all of their base abilities also cost ki points, unlike other 1/3 casters. So, to make an accurate comparison, let's have an Eldritch Knight fighter whose Action surge costs a 2nd level spell slot, Second Wind a 1st, using their fighting style requires a 1st level slot to burnt at the beginning of the day... but they also get spells?

It isn't going to work. And it hasn't worked.

 

[Mecheon]

Nothing at all wrong with the 4 Elements Monk itself, people just put incorrect expectations on it, which is why WotC put Sun Soul out there for people who really wanted to play Zuko.

4 Elements has been noted as the most ki-starved subclass in the game for years now? It and the Beastmaster have always been seen as the weakest two from the base game and they've always been the two attention has been put to. Beastmaster got semi-fixed come Tasha's, but 4 Elements didn't get anything for the fact it needs a lot more ki than what it gets

Now, Sun Soul on the other hand I would hardly call a fix given its specially also noted as weak. Its trying at more of a Goku idea than a Zuko, but it.... Doesn't really do that all that well either

 

[Henadic Theologian]

. . . That's kinda terrifying. Imagine a Brown Bear that sprouts a hand from its face to be able to grab a weapon. Thanks, I hate it.

To be fair brown bears wouldn't physically be able to do that, they are mammals, not an Ooze, so it shouldn't work.

 

[Parmandur]

And many people do pick the variant over the standard. It isn't like it is 5% of the humans played, a significant number of people play the variant human. My tables use it exclusively.

So, nit picked over trying to make "many" into "majority" but it still doesn't address the actual point.

As I recall, the spread was 75-25 in favor of the standard human. "Some" might be the most appropriate modifier, rather than "many."

 

[Parmandur]

The abilities aren't discounted though. A fireball at level 11 is just not impressive. Fly at level 11 is also not impressive esp. on a Monk who has movement abilities already.

You're completely ignoring that they aren't actually gaining anything here because they are losing their Monk abilities by casting spells.

If they got spells they could cast that didn't cost Ki I'd be with you. But they don't (except for a couple cantrips).

They still have the core abilities to hit things real good and avoid being hit or hurt. The math works out better in play than in theorycrafting.

 

[Parmandur]

The 4e element abilities are not "very powerful" For example, they could spend 5 ki at 17th level to get.... stoneskin. That's a bad spell when casters get it at level 7, let alone ten levels later.

And it is like that for every ability, all of them come on far far too late. And the costs are egregious. If we assumed that Ki points = spell points then move from there (which is an assumption you did make) then a half-caster at level 17 should have 57 daily points. Now, monks may only have 17 but that refreshes on a short rest right? So, surely we just need to have... (doing basic math) 3 to 4 short rests every single day.

And the average number of short rests people have per day? 1 to 2. Which makes them closer to third casters, only without cantrips, and all of their base abilities also cost ki points, unlike other 1/3 casters. So, to make an accurate comparison, let's have an Eldritch Knight fighter whose Action surge costs a 2nd level spell slot, Second Wind a 1st, using their fighting style requires a 1st level slot to burnt at the beginning of the day... but they also get spells?

It isn't going to work. And it hasn't worked.

It is 1/2 Caster with two Short Rests, actually, and any Monk who isn't getting two short rests is being...shortchanged...as it stands. Same as any Warlock.