D&D 5E Unearthed Arcana: Travelers of the Multiverse

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Looks like Spelljammer and/or Planescape is back on the menu!

 

[Parmandur]

4 Elements Monk is a great example. It was poorly designed and shouldn't be in the game.

Nothing at all wrong with the 4 Elements Monk itself, people just put incorrect expectations on it, which is why WotC put Sun Soul out there for people who really wanted to play Zuko.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Nothing at all wrong with the 4 Elements Monk itself, people just put incorrect expectations on it, which is why WotC put Sun Soul out there for people who really wanted to play Zuko.

See? NOW try to succeed at never putting any bad options into the game.

 

[ad_hoc]

the ability to be useful to the party and experiencing the fantasy properly.

The 4 Elements Monk is both of those things.

It's terrible though.

 

[ad_hoc]

Nothing at all wrong with the 4 Elements Monk itself, people just put incorrect expectations on it, which is why WotC put Sun Soul out there for people who really wanted to play Zuko.

Sun Soul lets you be the elemental attack monk while also using monk abilities.

It was the right fix.

The base ability doesn't use Ki (unless getting an extra attack with it) and the Burning Hands is a bonus action so you still get to do your regular monk attacks.

That's how the 4E Monk should have been designed. Let you be both a monk and have your subclass powers work in tandem.

 

[Parmandur]

See? NOW try to succeed at never putting any bad options into the game.

Exactly.

 

[Scribe]

but is the other a bad option or merely overshadowed?

You have to define these kinds of terms.

If you have 2 abilities that give a +1 to different things, they are 'equal'.
If you have more opportunity to apply 1 ability instead of the other, then the less used ability has lower value, as you will not leverage it as much.

Its not that its bad, and in fact it is not overshadowed when it COULD be used, but the context where it is used, is encountered less.

Thats why balance is not as simple as removing the 'bad' options, but also has to be looked at within the context of the environment those options are used in.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Nothing at all wrong with the 4 Elements Monk itself, people just put incorrect expectations on it, which is why WotC put Sun Soul out there for people who really wanted to play Zuko.

There is absolutely something wrong with the 4 Elements Monk. It would be actually functional if it had Spell Slots, instead of having to use its main class's point ability to use its subclass's features. The other 1/3rd casters are way more functional in their roles (although EKs still are a pretty big mess, although they're mechanically effective).

 

[Parmandur]

There is absolutely something wrong with the 4 Elements Monk. It would be actually functional if it had Spell Slots, instead of having to use its main class's point ability to use its subclass's features. The other 1/3rd casters are way more functional in their roles (although EKs still are a pretty big mess, although they're mechanically effective).

Ki Points are Spell Slots, and all Monks are already Short Res 1/2 Casters by progression, the 4 Elements Monk is just given actual Spells at their normal cost. If you translate the Paladin, Ranger or Artificer to Spell Points following the DMG variant rule, they track level by level with getting 3 times the Points per Long Rest that the Monk gets per Short Rest, so the math is exact.

 

[Mind of tempest]

The 4 Elements Monk is both of those things.

It's terrible though.

you're trying to be the avatar, you would need a full caster for that as a start

 

[ad_hoc]

Ki Points are Spell Slots, and all Monks are already Short Res 1/2 Casters by progression, the 4 Elements Monk is just given actual Spells at their normal cost. If you translate the Paladin, Ranger or Artificer to Spell Points following the DMG variant rule, they track level by level with getting 3 times the Points per Long Rest that the Monk gets per Short Rest, so the math is exact.

The problem is that they're gaining options with their Ki but using those options means they lose use of their monk options which they already had.

Open Hand gives add on effects for free.

Shadow at level 3 gives discounted level 2 spells that are useful outside of combat so not competing with monk actions in combat. And then also gives them a great free ability at level 6 which improves their monk abilities.

4E just eats into their Ki. That is why it is poorly designed.

Sun soul on the other hand gives them extra things to do. It could be better but the design ideas behind it are there.

Imagine a Paladin or Ranger subclass that only gave them additional spells known. No extra slots. No abilities. Just more options for the power they already have. It would be much worse than their other subclasses which give them more things.