TSR Now it’s WotC’s Turn: WotC Moves Against TSR3

I guess after you provoke somebody enough, they’ll eventually bite back. The company has begun trademark cancellation procedures against the newest TSR.

TSR3 briefly filed for a court declaration on Dec 7th as to their ownership of the TSR trademarks — with an IndieGoGo campaign to fund it — and then voluntarily dismissed it a couple of days later on Dec 9th.

This filing is dated Dec 6th, the day before TSR3 launched its campaign.

In WotC’s response, they cite fraud as one of the causes of action, alleging that TSR3 misled the trademark office in its original application.

Mike Dunford, on Twitter, breaks down the action.

TSR - TSR3.5 Voluntarily Dismisses Lawsuit

A lawsuit filed by TSR3 against D&D owners Wizards of the Coast a few days ago was voluntarily dismissed. Dismissal without prejudice means that the suit can be filed again. The suit lasted two days from the 7th to the 9th of December. The IndieGoGo fundraiser to fund it is still running...

www.enworld.org

TSR - TSR3.5 Launches IndieGogo Campaign to "Stop" WotC

The latest in the TSR3 saga, which has gone quiet for a while, is a new IndieGoGo campaign launched to "stop Wizards of the Coast". They cite wrongful bullying of TSR, and refusal to answer requests that WotC show TSR "proof of their claims" (although the campaign page doesn't mention what those...

www.enworld.org

 

[see]

At least until 2009, when Wizards stopped selling PDFs in response to piracy that made the 4e PHB2 PHB available on torrent sites within days of its official release (or possibly even the same day or maybe even some days before), and didn't start again until 2013. That may or may not count as abandoning the trademark.

Any period of non-use doesn't matter for this filing, since this design mark was back in use (it's on the images of the covers of the 1e Fiend Folio and Deities & Demigods used to sell PDFs) before LaNasa/TSR3 started using it. Simply reviving the use of an abandoned mark in commerce revives it as a common-law trademark. Common-law trademarks don't have the same array of legal protections as registered trademarks, but people can't just come along and register them out from under you.

As I brought up in previous threads, the combination of the lapse of registration, the no-use period, and (most critically) the TSR2 use of the "TSR" word mark may combine to have ended Habsro/WotC's exclusive rights to the "TSR" word mark.

But this particular design mark was being used exclusively by Habsro/WotC in commerce on their PDFs before TSR3 tried registering and using it. I can't see how LaNasa/TSR3.x can possibly succeed in this proceeding.

(As to why Hasbro/WotC filed only on this particular design mark, well, I am certainly out of my depth as a non-lawyer trying to guess high-end trademark lawyer strategy. But since I've swum out this far, why not try? My best guess is that this particular design mark's appearance on the cover images used on PDF-sales websites, plus its substantial distinctive artistic elements beyond just words, combine to make it a particularly strong case for Hasbro/WotC.)

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

The problem there is the poor abstraction of how wet noodles actually work in combat.

https://c.tenor.com/rKvem1-2kYgAAAAC/jo-cat-bard.gif

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I can't see how LaNasa/TSR3.x can possibly succeed in this proceeding.

Success was never the point.

 

[Maggan]

No?

The original place AD&D was designed. The same place where you can play D&D if you want. Old books and magazine and minis etc.

It’s a big slice of gaming history and I wouldn’t mind seeing it someday.

Apart from not being the original place where AD&D was designed, the rest sounds like my gaming den!

 

[Mannahnin]

TSR Hobbies has several rare D&D items in the museum that were donated to them.


oh and a lot of dollar store dice.

If I recall, TSR LLC and DHSM are two different entities. If they are, then all those things in DHSM are protected.

LaNasa might be dropping the ball on a lot of things, but looking at his history, he knows how to file LLCs to cover for all of those mess ups and move on to the next one. We finally see someone out Kening Ken Whitman.

But all the sales appear to be through the Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum.

The "Order Here" button on the https://tsr-hobbies.com/ website redirects straight to https://tsrmuseum.com/online-store.

They might be different legally-incorporated entities, but even if so, DHSM is selling the infringing products.

 

[J.Quondam]

No?

The original place AD&D was designed. The same place where you can play D&D if you want. Old books and magazine and minis etc.

It’s a big slice of gaming history and I wouldn’t mind seeing it someday.

I just wish it was administered by more competent, less corrupt people.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

My assumption is that Wizards doesn't give a fig about LaNasa's assets. Looking at the filing (and I'm a long time out from the legal field, so I could easily have missed it), nowhere does it say they are seeking anything in damages. I could see them throwing the court costs in there as a punitive formality, but their main request is that LaNasa's be legally stopped from using their design mark and knock it off with the pretending like their property is stuff created by his company.

Here's a question: Presuming LaNasa's LLC is sufficiently legit that Wizards can't go after his personal assets, what about nuTSR's profits off counterfeit merch (the dice sets, T-shirts, and so forth with oldTSR's logos)? Can LaNasa pocket that money from the LLC and then say it's now his personal cash, hands off?

It doesn't seem like you should be able to do that, but I'm having a little trouble imagining how you'd write a law to forbid it.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

TSR3's hopeless battle against WOTC would make a great adventure module. It would be the first time an actual lawsuit would get the D&D treatment. I would play one of the corporate lawyers; he will use a +5 flaming sword in a fight.

But it would be written in such a way as to be worthily titled, “The Forest Debacle”.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

This is pretty much the scenario I was discussing with my Dad last night. It was only a matter of time before WotC (most likely at Hasbro’s request and with their pocket change) would seek to nuke nuTSR from orbit, because it’s the only way to be sure.

 

[Morrus]

Here's a question: Presuming LaNasa's LLC is sufficiently legit that Wizards can't go after his personal assets, what about nuTSR's profits off counterfeit merch (the dice sets, T-shirts, and so forth with oldTSR's logos)? Can LaNasa pocket that money from the LLC and then say it's now his personal cash, hands off?

They're just trying to get the trademark registration cancelled. That's all. They're not suing him or trying to claim damages or anything.