D&D General "Red Orc" American Indians and "Yellow Orc" Mongolians in D&D

[Ruin Explorer]

...I'm waiting for the critical eye to be turned to some older 3PP supplements, myself. Obscurity is the sole solving grace.

Yeah, wow, huh right?

There is tons of stuff out there that is largely just "skating under the radar" or however you want to put, and a lot of it is later than The Orcs of Thar. It's not generally as bad (what is?) but there is some really messed-up stuff out there, and not just the stuff intentionally trying to be. And that's just D&D-related stuff, if we looked at other TTRPGs there's a lot more.

 

[Krachek]

These are small words. Because they play on the fear of "fandom" that our toys will be taken from us if we don't behave like nice wittle customers.

Do you honestly think that because I'm suggesting a path of amends for "red orcs" and "yellow orcs", that WotC will never publish settings, guides, or supplements which have "cultural reference"?

I can see around me that it is getting harder to make product that contain cultural-historical reference, even if the projects are made in good faith and respect. Here in Quebec, I have heard of two scenic show that have been cancelled due to protests. You can take a look at what is going on in American university, some subjects are willingly avoid even in an academic environment.

In Dnd, we have see the Vistani case, we got Warning on old products, and in this thread you personally ask for amends. I can’t tell if the future will bring more pressure on Wotc. But I can see that they are actively concerned, and I can guess that they have now some review committee on cultural-historical matter. They won’t be smarter or bold than university professors, they will avoid sensible subjects, or mixup and blend reference the the point that no one will be able to match it with actual or historical one.

 

[Mirtek]

He said "major", so nah, not really. You could rely on reader flagging (just set up an email for it or w/e) to get a priority order of which ones people saw as most problematic. It might not be perfect but it would likely be pretty close to accurate.

So what is a "major" product ? From my gut feeling I would not have flagged a Gazetter as "major".

It's probably not neccessary to check a dice set or a bunch of character sheets. Although who knows whether there has been as set down the line with problematic images?

Edit: He didn't actually say "major" product, but major offense. And such a major offense can be even in a minor product. So at the end of the day you'd have to check all to see which ones hide such a major offense

 

[Ruin Explorer]

So what is "major"? From my gut feeling I would not have flagged a Gazetter as "major".

Uh, I'm pretty "major" was intended to refer to the level of problematic-ness, rather than the importance of the product. Really surprised you're reading:

1) Well, ideally each legacy product which has major "ethnic, racial, or gender prejudice" would be looked at by a team of professional cultural consultants.

That way. Bold mine.

And as I've said, you work by people flagging this up.

 

[Mirtek]

...I'm waiting for the critical eye to be turned to some older 3PP supplements, myself. Obscurity is the sole solving grace.

Well, if it's some mayfly company that arose during the D20 hype and is long ceased business, there's no one left to adress the criticism to anymore.

 

[Mirtek]

Uh, I'm pretty "major" was intended to refer to the level of problematic-ness, rather than the importance of the product. Really surprised you're reading:

And to know which publication contains such major level of problematic-ness you have to check them all. How else would you know where those intances are?

 

[Ruin Explorer]

And to know which publication contains such major level of problematic-ness you have to check them all. How else would you know where those intances are?

As I've said, you let players flag them. You don't need to actively search for them, and further, if you do, you're more likely to end up missing some. There's no way to be successful at this which doesn't involve some amount of crowd-sourcing.

 

[Voadam]

Relevant to this thread I feel the minor moral panic about Ace supposedly being "too violent for kids" was related to fears about race and culture. Specifically Ace was coded in such a way that she was basically a "b-girl" in the 1980s sense, i.e. she had a boombox, hair tightly braided on top of her head, a baseball bat, baggy jacket, etc. (though she's from the future and not from Earth). Hiphop was pretty huge at the time, and there was definitely moral hand-wringing about it (hell I went to breakdancing classes in the late '80s lol). As speaking out about her appearance etc. might have been seen as racist or bordering on it, instead there was moaning about her "violence". Which was pretty funny given the lack of concern about far more violent characters previously. It didn't last, but sadly neither did Doctor Who

She was from contemporary 80s earth though some of the episodes she appeared in were advanced into slightly near future (Lethbridge Stuart in his retirement remarks in passing about the current King at one point I believe). An event took her off earth to where the Doctor met her in her first episode Dragonfire. Later on the episode Ghostlight explores a little of her past on earth.

I recently finished watching the unfortunately incomplete set of 7th Doctor DVDs that Netflix has and think she was a great companion.

 

[Krachek]

How much cultural trait can we mixup before leaving the depiction of a unique culture?

We take a group of people living in carts, lead by a fortune teller. Look like the Romani people.
We add exotic animals, clowns, acrobats. Look like old wandering circus. Does it still depict Romani people?
We add traveling-trading of precious goods from one part of the empire to the other. Look like caravaners on the silk road.
At which point do we have stop to depict Romani and create an unreferenced culture?

 

[BookTenTiger]

How much cultural trait can we mixup before leaving the depiction of a unique culture?

We take a group of people living in carts, lead by a fortune teller. Look like the Romani people.
We add exotic animals, clowns, acrobats. Look like old wandering circus. Does it still depict Romani people?
We add traveling-trading of precious goods from one part of the empire to the other. Look like caravaners on the silk road.
At which point do we have stop to depict Romani and create an unreferenced culture?

This is why a publisher would bring in a consultant who is experienced in Romani culture.