D&D 5E Casters vs Martials: Part 1 - Magic, its most basic components

[HammerMan]

You missed the point. I know you don't want common. My point was the examples posters have been using are akin to superheroes (demigods, anime/manga, etc.) or are outright superheroes (Hulk), examples that are basically "superheroic".

except every mage of legend has the same problem... you are holding "fighting men" to a different standard" then the mystic classes

What you want is basically dc comic super heroes, or something akin to it, isn't it???

no more and no less then wizard players want to play Dr Strange or Zatana.

Which in order to do so, would have superheroic abilities... akin to super heroes.

then why not complain about the archmage!?!?!? what makes the fighter diffrent then the mage?

 

[DND_Reborn]

one of the hurdles (and why I hope 6e fixes this day 1 by being more like 4e) is that any power increase gets "But Power creep"

Yep. And that was my biggest complaint about Tashas. I had a player who got the book and wanted to use a spell in it, and I said "No way, that is much more powerful than the other spells of a similar nature." It was no contest.

It happens whenever an edition keeps adding "more". Look at all the splat books of 2E!!!

But, power creep can be ok if players:
1. All agree to the power level for the game, OR
2. Agree some want to play lower power and are ok with others getting higher power.

 

[DND_Reborn]

And right here is where martial fans cant' have nice things.

The second we get some fantastic elements and exploits, they get called magic and are absorbed into the Wizard-blob.

Wrong.

You can have them, just don't base them on a class structure that already uses magic! You are basically shooting yourself in the foot and almost asking it be called "just another form of magic" at that point...

 

[HammerMan]

Yep. And that was my biggest complaint about Tashas. I had a player who got the book and wanted to use a spell in it, and I said "No way, that is much more powerful than the other spells of a similar nature." It was no contest.

this is why WoTC needs to fix old spells subclasses and classes... so a new summoning spell isn't right next to an old one.

 

[HammerMan]

Wrong.

You can have them, just don't base them on a class structure that already uses magic! You are basically shooting yourself in the foot and almost asking it be called "just another form of magic" at that point...

no you will (You as in the 'don't want martial character to have equal abilities' not you per say) will just find ANY new thing to have an issue... that is just the LIE used to disrespect 4e ("Everyone has spells")

 

[DND_Reborn]

except every mage of legend has the same problem... you are holding "fighting men" to a different standard" then the mystic classes

Um... no, I'm not. All those examples (fighting men like Hulk or Hercules) are still superheroic-types.

no more and no less then wizard players want to play Dr Strange or Zatana.

Yep, they are basically playing superheroes, too.

then why not complain about the archmage!?!?!? what makes the fighter diffrent then the mage?

LOL go ahead and complain! Myself (and others IIRC) have already agreed magic in D&D at high levels is superheroic! I've nerfed casters over all so much for MY game because instead of raising martials to be superheroes also, my preference is to bring casters down to the heroic level instead.

You know, at this point I just feel like we are shouting past each other....

 

[DND_Reborn]

this is why WoTC needs to fix old spells subclasses and classes... so a new summoning spell isn't right next to an old one.

Well, you can either increase the power of the old, or keep the new on a more even keel...

You can only do both if you acknowledge you've design one game with two different power levels to it.

 

[HammerMan]

Um... no, I'm not. All those examples (fighting men like Hulk or Hercules) are still superheroic-types.

so is eveyr caster... every hero has an origin. every single one is 'above normal people' You have singled out 1 type and said "But not super heroics"

Yep, they are basically playing superheroes, too.

why is it okay for some players but not others?

You know, at this point I just feel like we are shouting past each other....

me too

 

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

Wrong.

You can have them, just don't base them on a class structure that already uses magic! You are basically shooting yourself in the foot and almost asking it be called "just another form of magic" at that point...

This seems to be true for a bunch of people but I will never understand this point of view!

These peoples' heads must explode when they look at something like Fate.

 

[HammerMan]

if you acknowledge you've design one game with two different power levels to it.

that would be a start if WotC admitted that the classes are not balanced