D&D 5E Revisited Setting News: Its not the 2023 Classic setting, but rather for 2024

[Micah Sweet]

Dark and Grim are two separate things, and WotC will go dark, but not grim.

Ask any GH fan what makes their setting different than Forgotten Realms. You'll get a lot of answers ranging from nostalgic to smug, but the big one seems to be Greyhawk is grim. Races are very segregated, nations are isolationist. There are plenty of "monsters" but "PC races" are few. Groups like the Scarlet Brotherhood are forged around racial identity and purity, slavery is accepted in several areas, and every statement about orcs, drow, and the like are true. It flies in the face of the current trend towards more inclusive settings, less overt fantasy racism, and the notion of "play what you want" that is immensely popular with newer players. You could make Greyhawk start to resemble that kind of setting, but you run into the 3e problem of "It's like the Realms, only less well known".

FWIW: I think their Dark Sun will continue down the trend of 4e's take on the setting, with maybe even more concessions. The core of the setting (brutal survival, psionics, desert wastes, distant gods, corrupted magic) all work simply fine even if you're a tiefling bard. They can lighten up Athas and keep the flavor correct, much like how they lightened up Ravenloft and kept it on flavor.

Agree, except obviously I don't believe they did keep Ravenloft on flavor. That book is just new-style D&D horror with some old proper nouns.

 

[dave2008]

So does a lich. The soul coin-op vehicles aren't raising the bar any. a lich & all kinds of other stuff does that.

Those aren't the PCs - isn't that the difference?

It's not even difficult to carry the coins around to activate as magic items or pop them in the slot to power the car.

Doesn't that make it all the more horrible to you? It does for me.

 

[dave2008]

Not to me. I simply don't trust the company to make a 5e version of any setting with an edge to it. Maybe Spelljammer. As has been said, its pretty silly already. And even there, I expect them to oversimplify it.

My point is that it is not for you. The setting still has value to many without what you perceive to be the important "edge."

WotC is not in the business to make things for you (or me) after all.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

So does a lich. The soul coin-op vehicles aren't raising the bar any. a lich & all kinds of other stuff does that. check the grimdark entry on tvtropes

Its not the existence of monster car fueled by soul coin that is dark, its the fact that the heroes (generally seen as good) are forced to use the car (do something amoral) to get anything done in the campaign, really. That's your ''tonal shift''. That's the malaise you are looking for, that unease you wish to provoke in the players.

Of course, if your players are playing gruff mercenaries and cackling necromancers who dont care that they are playing gods with the immortal soul of a living creature to get somewhere faster, the darkness of it is kinda lost. Same if souls coins are just a commodity to be put in a slot to fuel a vehicle and the DM does not telegraph that part of a conscient being is being consumed slowly as fuel.

Of course if a DM just goes and say ''here are spooky cars, and they are fueled with SOULS!!! are you scared yet?!'' it kinda lose its edge a little.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Agree, except obviously I don't believe they did keep Ravenloft on flavor. That book is just new-style D&D horror with some old proper nouns.

What is "Ravenloft flavour"? I mean, the original module was a Hammer spoof full of corny jokes.

 

[dave2008]

You could make Greyhawk start to resemble that kind of setting, but you run into the 3e problem of "It's like the Realms, only less well known".

What I am wondering is if that is a good thing or a bad thing? Maybe that is exactly what the want for the 50th?

 

[Micah Sweet]

My point is that it is not for you. The setting still has value to many without what you perceive to be the important "edge."

WotC is not in the business to make things for you (or me) after all.

I was talking about value to me. I see no value, to me, to any product WotC is planning to put out at this point, and the only thing they could do that is both within their power and reasonable is to release the setting IP to the DMs Guild, so designers I respect more have a shot at it. If other people like their new work, that's fine, but I see no need for it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

What is "Ravenloft flavour"? I mean, the original module was a Hammer spoof full of corny jokes.

Like it or not, Ravenloft was an homage/pastiche of classic horror tropes. They have gone away from that in the new work, and I miss it. Even if VRG has value in and of itself (and I believe it does), calling it Ravenloft convinced me that WotC and I have parted ways.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Like it or not, Ravenloft was an homage/pastiche of classic horror tropes. They have gone away from that in the new work, and I miss it. Even if VRG has value in and of itself (and I believe it does), calling it Ravenloft convinced me that WotC and I have parted ways.

I would say the 2nd edition version dropped the corny jokes and tried to be a serious WoD style horror setting. The 5e version takes it quite seriously, but is less emo. Really, it has been many things over the years. There is no one true Ravenloft.

 

[tetrasodium]

Those aren't the PCs - isn't that the difference?

Doesn't that make it all the more horrible to you? It does for me.

No it makes the action casual & forgettable, there is no meaningful emotional conflict or risk to using them so it just the "too bleak, stopped caring" trope in print & at the table. Everyone the players meet is some flavor of capital E Evil on the absolute morality axis, the only one doing or possibly struggling with doing anything "amoral" in DiA is zariel & she too is stuck on the absolute morality axis gone sideways.
blackrazor carries more "hmm... I dunno" questions of morality.

That "HAHA IT'S EVIL... LOOK HOW EVIL IT IS" miss is something I unfortunately expect to be continued with any of the new stuff coming along that involves darker & more serious concepts like darksun & such if we see them at all.