D&D 5E Greyhawk: Why We Need Mo' Oerth by 2024

[Shardstone]

This reminds me of the Psionics thread from a few months ago, where you had people going "Psionics are terrible and WotC shouldn't waste their time on more than what they've already done, so they can instead make good content (ie, the stuff I want)."

how so?

 

[Mercurius]

I will add emphasis to what I wrote-

One of the things that was so magical about the original setting was the Darlene Map. I can't think of a better way to continue to honor a pioneer within the industry than by having that map released again with the setting (I guess they have those slip thingies instead of boxed sets now?). It's truly one of the great and seminal maps in this hobby. Now, I know that the Anna Meyer maps are amazing as well, and I agree with Hussar that they would also make an excellent addition ... but I'd like to give Darlene some props.

To the extent I was not being perfectly clear, given the focus we have on people like Gygax and Arneson, I think it would be great to use the 50th to honor Darlene- one of the early and influential female contributors to D&D- by including her map, which remains an influential piece of art.

It's certainly not something I'd ever insist on, but that's the type of fan service that I think people should get behind.

OK, that makes more sense. And I whole-heartedly agree that Darlene's map should be included, but I actually think they should include both - Darlene and Anna Meyer, and just go for a deluxe box set, as I've suggested many times over the last few years.

 

[James Gasik]

Oh just this part: "It's interesting that the people who keep arguing that there should be no Greyhawk are those that are heavily invested in the idea that (1) other people should not be allowed to have what they want".

 

[Shardstone]

Oh just this part: "It's interesting that the people who keep arguing that there should be no Greyhawk are those that are heavily invested in the idea that (1) other people should not be allowed to have what they want".

I'm just not seeing many people saying "no Greyhawk" in this thread anymore. Instead, I'm seeing a lot of ppl talking about how they feel like Greyhawk won't be made by WotC unless they find a way to spin up new interest for it.

 

[Maxperson]

As long as we don't have to put up with Black Cherry Snarf we should be okay. Some thing should just not be unleashed on the world again.

But thank goodness we got rid of the sweet "new" Snarf and back to the bitter old "Classic" Snarf. Now if we could just figure out how to get it in smaller portion sizes.

I'm pretty sure that zero sugar classic Snarf with dark blend coffee, Classic Snarf with caramel coffee, classic Snarf with vanilla coffee and classic Snarf with dark blend coffee come in smaller portions.

 

[Oofta]

Smaller portions? Never!

Because then we would deny ourselves the pleasure of seeing people keep saying, 200 posts in, that they want a new Greyhawk as
If it’s some great original thought.

The first requirement I listed in the OP for a Greyhawk reboot-

This should be obvious, but the past has to remain in the past. I would like a return to the 576 CY timeline (partly for the next reason) but I don't need it. What I want more than anything is an interesting quality setting THAT ATTRACTS NEW FANS. You can always get a reprint of the old stuff if you want- I want a new generation to have their own Greyhawk.

I guess the problem with big portions is no one finishes the meal!

Yeah, if only I could think of a real world analogy. Say, something that traditionally came in 12 oz cans or 20 oz bottles. Then there's the 2 liter bottles that always seem to go flat by the time you get to the end.

Hmm ... too bad I can't put my finger on what that product would be or how someone could want something a bit smaller than that 2 liter bottle. Maybe even one of those 6 oz mini cans? It's right on the tip of my tongue.

 

[JEB]

2e to 3e didn't. All that really changed is Bane came back (which, while a fairly major change, was not a world-wide catastrophe) and some wizards were now sorcerers...

Maybe they figured the requisite cross-edition cataclysm had been covered by Die Vecna Die?

 

[grankless]

I have just never seen what of Greyhawk makes it worth bringing back for new players such as myself. The primary thing that I think matters with a Fantasy world is its aesthetic, which enabels and flavors the stories in that setting. However, the aesthetics of Greyhawk are really just generic Fantasy Aesthetics with a likewise generic Dark Fantasy twist. While in the 70s and 80s, the idea of Greyhawk was still fertile, and S&S + Dark Fantasy was a relatively young genre. But in 2022, what does Greyhawk offer that other settings don't?

I'm not a fan of the Forgotten Realms, but I don't see how I couldn't do literally anything and everything in Greyhawk in the Forgotten Realms, or even better, as a homebrew product. And when I look at 3rd Party, this aesthetic is covered by Kobold Press, Midnight, Symbaroum, and so on. So why would I, as someone who has no nostalgic connection to Greyhawk, want to play it when literally before I was born the idea was already stale, and has only gotten more stale with all the innovations in the genre sense.

Now, if Greyhawk returned back with a grunge punk vibe, and really played up the dungeonpunk aesthetics or really just did anything, literally anything other than white people in armor and elves drawn the same way they have been for 40 years, I'd be excited for it. But as it stands, Greyhawk is very much a generic Fantasy setting that offers new players absolutely nothing interesting at all that other settings don't offer (alongside their own stylish variety).

This isn't to take a crap on Greyhawk btw. I'd quite like to see a beautiful Castle Greyhawk adventure that really blows my socks off, or a modern take on the Caves of Chaos. But if all that is being proposed is just more of the same Greyhawk, well, I don't think there is enough market interest for that to be done.

Agreed. In my years of playing nobody's really ever said anything that makes Greyhawk stand out as anything other than a slightly-different Realms, and I also don't super like the Realms. Like, there's a megadungeon castle, a god of racism, and a god of guns-that-aren't-really-guns. About all anyone mentions.

 

[Mort]

ETA- I think one source of frustration that has been mentioned repeatedly is that despite having Saltmarsh released, there still isn't the ability to get official 3PP on DM's Guild for Greyhawk.

I bet WoTC is a hesitant to do that - there are some fairly big Greyhawk fan fanboys out there who ALSO happen to be successful game designers/writers.

Heck if WoTC opened the door and Paizo allowed it, there isn't a bigger Greyhawk fanboy than Erick Mona (though I do wonder if he's actually capable of a fresh fun take at this point. Good early stuff but it's been a LONG time).

 

[JEB]

I bet WoTC is a hesitant to do that - there are some fairly big Greyhawk fan fanboys out there who ALSO happen to be successful game designers/writers.

Heck if WoTC opened the door and Paizo allowed it, there isn't a bigger Greyhawk fanboy than Erick Mona (though I do wonder if he's actually capable of a fresh fun take at this point. Good early stuff but it's been a LONG time).

So you're suggesting they're keeping the door shut because they're worried the official 5E Greyhawk might be outshown by fan works?