Dr Strange 2: In the Multiverse of Madness (Spoilers)

[Tonguez]

Yeah, that's not my reading at all.

While you can roll off anything with the blame-the-writers card on this sort of thing, I still think this assumes she's thinking straight in a way I don't believe she's depicted as until after the confrontation with Agatha.

SWORD confronts her with guns and directly tell her she’s holding hostages. She is in complete control of that situation, knows that its an illusion (Vision is falling apart when he goes through) and if she wanted to she could have let the townsfolk go then - she didnt have to loose her family either as she could have reduce the Hex just just her house and kept her family inside. But she doesnt make the good choice instead she acts selfishly and doubles down on her Hex

 

[Thomas Shey]

SWORD confronts her with guns and directly tell her she’s holding hostages. She is in complete control of that situation, knows that its an illusion (Vision is falling apart when he goes through) and if she wanted to she could have let the townsfolk go then - she didnt have to loose her family either as she could have reduce the Hex just just her house and kept her family inside. But she doesnt make the good choice instead she acts selfishly and doubles down on her Hex

Sorry, I still don't read that scene as her knowing its an illusion; I read it as her thinking she has a protective barrier and is confused when Vision starts to have his problem walking through it. SWORD tells her she's holding hostages, but why in the world would she believe anything from them?

It sets her mind on the path that she later does realize what she's been doing, but at that point? Naw.

 

[billd91]

SWORD confronts her with guns and directly tell her she’s holding hostages. She is in complete control of that situation, knows that its an illusion (Vision is falling apart when he goes through) and if she wanted to she could have let the townsfolk go then - she didnt have to loose her family either as she could have reduce the Hex just just her house and kept her family inside. But she doesnt make the good choice instead she acts selfishly and doubles down on her Hex

Tragic heroes sometimes do that - their tragedy is brought on by external forces but compounded by rash decisions.

 

[billd91]

Sorry, I still don't read that scene as her knowing its an illusion; I read it as her thinking she has a protective barrier and is confused when Vision starts to have his problem walking through it. SWORD tells her she's holding hostages, but why in the world would she believe anything from them?

Simple fact is - she wouldn’t. They had already poisoned any possible relationship they could have had with her.

 

[Tonguez]

Tragic heroes sometimes do that - their tragedy is brought on by external forces but compounded by rash decisions.

Sure but denial of the facts doesnt actually make them wrong. When dictators invade other countries and oppress the citizens do they believe they are doing wrong?
Afterall Doctor Doom is the Hero of Latveria and believes what he does is good too (avoiding real world examples)

 

[billd91]

Sure but denial of the facts doesnt actually make them wrong. When dictators invade other countries and oppress the citizens do they believe they are doing wrong?
Afterall Doctor Doom is the Hero of Latveria and believes what he does is good too (avoiding real world examples)

Big Difference: Doom isn‘t driven by trauma and grief but by megalomania. Same with invading dictators. Was Hussein motivated by trauma when Iraq invaded Kuwait? When Hitler’s Germany invaded damn near everybody within reach? No. They weren’t. The comparisons aren’t close.

 

[Hussar]

Big Difference: Doom isn‘t driven by trauma and grief but by megalomania. Same with invading dictators. Was Hussein motivated by trauma when Iraq invaded Kuwait? When Hitler’s Germany invaded damn near everybody within reach? No. They weren’t. The comparisons aren’t close.

Ok.

What's the difference between Wanda and Thanos? Other than scale? If Wanda succeeds, doesn't she cause an incursion between two universes, meaning that even if she succeeds, she will murder trillions of beings? In WandaVision, she is motivated by trauma to torture thousands of people. Thanos is motivated by trauma to save the universe.

Is there a difference? Does being "motivated by trauma" excuse anything? It explains things, sure. And I'll totally agree that Wanda is a sympathetic character. Fair enough. But, at the end of the day, doesn't she have any responsibility for her actions? And, if she doesn't, why do we see Thanos as the villain?

Or, is it that the situation is a bit more nuanced that simply good guy/bad guy? Which, honestly, is how I see it. I can totally sympathise with Wanda while at the same time condemn her for her actions.

 

[Hussar]

Just to add a further thought that occurred to me as I walked to work. There's a common complaint that MCU villains aren't very interesting. I can buy that. But, something that the MCU does do well is make sympathetic villains. Whether it's someone like Killmonger from Black Panther, or Whiplash from Iron Man 2, or Tony Stark in Civil War (yeah, that's a very debatable point about whether or not he's a villain but, he's certainly sympathetic) or various other baddies over the years, heck, even Thanos himself, the MCU has been pretty good about getting us to care about the villain.

To me, Wanda is just another in that same vein. Someone who cannot move past their trauma and makes incredibly bad, self destructive decisions because of their pain. I do think it's something that the MCU does rather well actually.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Mod Note:

Let’s dial back the hostility and loaded rhetoric a bit, please.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

""You Know What They Call A Hero Who Doesn't Listen To Anyone, Doctor Strange.""

Except a major factor of the movie is.... Dr Strange does start to listen, and to change. He relies on others instead of "always holding the scalpel"

Which is, in fact, nonsense. He is still holding the scalpel. America Chevez IS the scalpel. And he has been using other people as his scalpel for ages. His whole plan for defeating Thanos involved spending 5 years dusted whilst others did everything.

And of course....he doesn't kill scores of people to get what he personally wants.

No, he engineers the deaths of half the people in the universe.