Dr Strange 2: In the Multiverse of Madness (Spoilers)

BRayne

Adventurer
Tony asked how many versions they won in, and Strange said "one." So no, according the established narrative, Strange had no other option.
Technically there could be any number of futures where they win but Doctor Strange doesn't make it, but of course he can't be sure of that. See the Ancient One saying "I've spent so many years peering through time, looking at this exact moment. But I can't see past it." in the first Dr. Strange.
 

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billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
Ok.

What's the difference between Wanda and Thanos? Other than scale? If Wanda succeeds, doesn't she cause an incursion between two universes, meaning that even if she succeeds, she will murder trillions of beings? In WandaVision, she is motivated by trauma to torture thousands of people. Thanos is motivated by trauma to save the universe.

Is there a difference? Does being "motivated by trauma" excuse anything? It explains things, sure. And I'll totally agree that Wanda is a sympathetic character. Fair enough. But, at the end of the day, doesn't she have any responsibility for her actions? And, if she doesn't, why do we see Thanos as the villain?
In WandaVision, Wanda isn't motivated by trauma to torture thousands, she's motivated to make an idyllic cocoon that happens to torture people without her conscious knowledge. She doesn't get confronted with that clarity, which Agatha knows all along, until the final episode. And she releases the people when she finds out. That's clearly not someone motivated in any way to torture people and a far cry from Thanos who is actively and consciously seeking to extinguish half the life in the universe.
By the Multiverse of Madness, the Darkhold has corrupted her further and the situation is different and far more extreme.
Or, is it that the situation is a bit more nuanced that simply good guy/bad guy? Which, honestly, is how I see it. I can totally sympathise with Wanda while at the same time condemn her for her actions.
Nuance, yeah, that's why she's a tragic hero as opposed to a hero in WandaVision. Tragic heroes are wrapped in nuance because of the troubles they cause in response to the challenges they face. But worthy of condemnation in WandaVision? Not really. That's flatly too harsh.
 

Stalker0

Legend
Which is, in fact, nonsense. He is still holding the scalpel. America Chevez IS the scalpel. And he has been using other people as his scalpel for ages. His whole plan for defeating Thanos involved spending 5 years dusted whilst others did everything.

No, he engineers the deaths of half the people in the universe.
Sorry, when you consult the great oracle stone and it literally gives you one chance out of a million to save the multiverse from losing half its people…you take it.

There is “engineering” here, he just follows the other laid out to get the best outcome he can.

Remember there are also likely dozens of futures strange saw where he comes out really well, maybe has a great life…but the world still loses half their people. He doesn’t take any of those, he does what he needs to do to save as many people as he can
 

BrokenTwin

Biological Disaster
Arguably, since The Ancient One established that you can't see past your own death, Strange was only telling Stark about the one timeline that he survived through to the happy ending. There's presumably multitudes of timelines he looked at where he didn't know if they could succeed at stopping/undoing Thanos's plan entirely because he died before that endpoint could be reached.
 

Sorry, when you consult the great oracle stone and it literally gives you one chance out of a million to save the multiverse from losing half its people…you take it.
You do if you can live with yourself being responsible for untold billions of deaths.
Please. Strange made sure people got back with their families.
Only if they were dusted. If you were on a plane, and the pilot was dusted, and the plane crashed, then you are dead. No takebacks.
.but if you want to say they'd write it so that he somehow did, fine.
Of course they would, because that's the way narratives work. If the movie has Captain America in the title he will find a way to win by being Captain America-ish. Which means the only person you can choose to sacrifice is yourself.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
Of course they would, because that's the way narratives work. If the movie has Captain America in the title he will find a way to win by being Captain America-ish. Which means the only person you can choose to sacrifice is yourself.

The issue is in the emotionally loaded word, "sacrifice," when applied to what is, essentially, the Trolley Problem. The person at the trolley controls has limited choices. It seems rather odd to place the moral weight of "sacrificing" on them when they have no option in which nobody dies.

Invoking Captain America is a false hypothetical. In the same situation, he would not have the choice to only sacrifice himself - the option simply wasn't available. Saying that the writers would have written it differently in that instance is a meta-argument, that has no bearing on the moral culpability of the character in-universe.

Doctor Strange did not create the situation. He has the moral and ethical burden of finding the best solution he could. He did that. The lives of those that were beyond his power to save are not on his hands.
 

Invoking Captain America is a false hypothetical. In the same situation, he would not have the choice to only sacrifice himself - the option simply wasn't available.
Captain America has faith. He would refuse to accept that the future is set in stone, no matter how many times he had seen it.

He could be wrong about that, if you wanted a real downer movie, but he isn't going to make that call.
 


billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
Captain America doesn't trade lives*

*Not trading lives only applies to named characters, trading the lives of thousands of Wakandans is fine actually.
Yeah, yeah. Dig deep enough and with enough of cynicism and you'll find something to complain about. But it's pretty clear from Cap's behavior and general outlook is that nobody just has to commit suicide to stop Thanos when you can put up a fight. And, from what we've seen, a fight could have won if 1) Thor had reached Thanos before he took the mind stone and 2) Thor had managed to take Thanos's head with Stormbreaker.
Of course, that wasn't going to happen because that wasn't the story the authors were telling - not that Cap knew that.
 


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