[+] The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power - SPOILERS ALLOWED

[trappedslider]

I heard this on one of Corey Olsen's (aka "the Tolkien Professor") podcasts. He who was one of a select few social media Tolkien fandom people who Amazon flew to London to meet the showrunners. So, I don't have a text citation for you.

My understanding is that if, for instance, they wanted to reference (or maybe even briefly include in a scene or more?) a character who is not part of the rights they purchased, they could theoretically work with the estate to gain specific, limited use of that character.

Then it may just be a single line like Gandalf's mentioning of other wizards without naming them.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Not to mention the Barrow-downs, Tom Bombadil, and Radagast. I think all of these--including Taming of the Shire--made sense from a film-making point of view. Certainly they are tangential, even if Taming of the Shire elaborated on his themes around evil and the fact that even the Shire wasn't safe from it. But that was at least implied by Frodo's visions of the Shire burning.

Tom Bombadil is interesting, because from a purely storytelling perspective--especially Hollywood-style and convention plotting--it is a completely unnecessary tangent. But there's also an argument that Bombadil is crucial to the identity of Middle-earth, and as about as "Tolkienish" as anything in the story.

Yeah Bombadil and the Barrow-Downs are the one element I’d have insisted on keeping. With the Shire epilogue a close second.

It foreshadows the darkness ahead, and also the way that hope and light can see you through that darkness, it establishes the hobbits as understanding some of the danger they’re in, and it shows the world in a way that changes the shape and hue of the entire rest of the story.

 

[Mercurius]

Yeah Bombadil and the Barrow-Downs are the one element I’d have insisted on keeping. With the Shire epilogue a close second.

It foreshadows the darkness ahead, and also the way that hope and light can see you through that darkness, it establishes the hobbits as understanding some of the danger they’re in, and it shows the world in a way that changes the shape and hue of the entire rest of the story.

Imagine casting Bombadil! I remember someone suggesting Robin Williams (RIP) eons ago, which I think could have worked. Williams was very "twinkly-eyed" and warm, and I think he'd be able to tone down his wackiness to the right level.

I still wish David Bowie had been cast as Elrond. Hugo Weaving was good (except for Isildur!!!! and the weird expression he gets at the Hobbits' antics), but Bowie would have been tremendous.

 

[Ryujin]

Imagine casting Bombadil! I remember someone suggesting Robin Williams (RIP) eons ago, which I think could have worked. Williams was very "twinkly-eyed" and warm, and I think he'd be able to tone down his wackiness to the right level.

I still wish David Bowie had been cast as Elrond. Hugo Weaving was good (except for Isildur!!!! and the weird expression he gets at the Hobbits' antics), but Bowie would have been tremendous.

I picture more of a Peter Deluise type for Bombadil. I'd say his father, if he hadn't already passed.

 

[Mannahnin]

I'll use a different example then... The Two Towers, specifically the Battle for Helm's Deep. In the movie, the battle is about 40 minutes long, a significant chunk of the movie. In the book, I think the battle is 4 pages long?

Christopher Tolkien said the movie "Eviscerated the book by making it an action movie for young people 15 to 25." He's probably mostly right considering that the whole point of the books is describing how horrible war is, and the movies definitely glorify war.

Anyway, if the Jackson movies aren't fan-fiction, then I don't see why Rings of Power is either.

Agreed. The LotR movies are in many ways faithful and loving adaptations, but from a more purist standpoint contain many changes for the sake of quick drama, some of which actually undercut the characters or the primary storyline.

Inventing additional drama in Aragorn & Arwen's relationship (including Elrond's disapproval), making Gimli primarily into comic relief, turning Ecthelion into a pretty simple antagonist rather than a tragic lord gradually losing his mind and hope, the Aragorn death fake-out in The Two Towers, the Army of the Dead making the victory of the men of Rohan and Gondor at the Pelennor Fields hollow, Frodo turning on and driving away Sam, Faramir falling prey to the same temptation that his brother did... There are actually quite a number of changes, especially in the second and third movies, which really weren't necessary.

That being said, I still appreciate them for being much better than anyone expected, and a bit of a miracle of film making.

 

[Mercurius]

That being said, I still appreciate them for being much better than anyone expected, and a bit of a miracle of film making.

Yes, me too - and I think this is key.

I must admit that I actually liked at least one of those additions: the Aragorn and Arwen romance. I'm a huge Tolkien fan, but reading Lord of the Rings -- let along The Silmarillion -- is in some sense more akin to reading a Medieval epic than a modern novel, in terms of "reader-character proximity," if that makes sense. And of course Viggo Mortensen's excellent and underrated performance really humanized Aragorn in a way that isn't captured in the books.

As much as I love Tolkien, I love him more for his world-building, myth-making, and philosophical-thematic content, than for his ability as a novelist.

 

[Mannahnin]

I enjoyed the Aragorn and Arwen romance, and Arwen's general greater presence in the movies (taking Glorfindel's place in the events of FotR, for example) overall. I think that latter was a good change that didn't clash with the story or betray the characters.

I think the romance as portrayed on screen still could have been awesome without Walsh & Boyens' invention of their quasi-break up, and of Elrond's disapproval.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Yes, me too - and I think this is key.

I must admit that I actually liked at least one of those additions: the Aragorn and Arwen romance. I'm a huge Tolkien fan, but reading Lord of the Rings -- let along The Silmarillion -- is in some sense more akin to reading a Medieval epic than a modern novel, in terms of "reader-character proximity," if that makes sense. And of course Viggo Mortensen's excellent and underrated performance really humanized Aragorn in a way that isn't captured in the books.

Yeah, I agree this was an addition I approve. And whilst people often complain about Faramir changes, I think it is decent too. That he is briefly tempted just like his brother, but makes a different choice is pretty poignant.

 

[Mercurius]

What about least favorite parts of the films?

For me I just never liked the "Galadriel gone wild" scene, or both her and Celebrim's extreeeemely slooooow cadence. It comes off as stilted more than it does ancient and wise.

Gimli as comic relief. Some is OK, but it felt a bit diminishing of the character (pun kind of intended).

Legolas was a bit too superheroic. I might be tainted by the Hobbit, though, where he attained Drizzt levels.

Sam and Frodo's bromance...just too much ("Oh, Sam").

The Uruk-hai are a bit comical, imo. Too WWF.

Eowyn killing the Witch King. Just too quick and easy. Not sure how they could have done it better, but it doesn't look believable.

The CGI of the worgs. Last couple times I saw it, it really stood out. But at the time it was the best they had, I guess.

Generally minor quibbles, though.

 

[Mannahnin]

I loved, loved, loved Blanchett's Galadriel performance, but yes, the CGI & voice effects on her biggest dramatic moment were overdone. They really could have kept it more subtle (even if they did enhance it, like Gandalf's confrontation of Bilbo over the ring) and been as or more effective, IMO.

Gimli as comic relief similarly overdone. I am glad that the extended editions give us a little more of his soulfulness (e.g. with Galadriel's gift), even if we missed the wonderful pathos of him looking into the Mirrormere.

Super Legolas is kind of a thing all through the movies, but it gets more exaggerated as they go on. It was a bit much for me; and that's speaking as someone who's wanted to be an elf thanks to Legolas since I was about six, when these books were first read to me. The moments of seeing him walking on top of the snow at Caradhras gave me one of the purest feelings of movie magic (connecting to my childhood) that I've ever experienced.

Eowyn and the Witch King, OTOH, I thought was amazingly well done.