D&D 5E A Homebrew Cleric Cantrip discussion

[CreamCloud0]

This is better than the 1st level spell divine favor (which use concentration and no light/dim light rider). Divine favor isnt a very good spell, but it shouldn’t be worse than a cantrip…

What about my revised version i made after that though?

Hmmm....

The melee weapon you are holding becomes infused with holy energy. The weapon sheds a bright light in a 10 foot radius and dim light for another 10 feet, The damage this weapon deals gains the Radiant property and you add additional Radiant damage equal to your WIS modifier when you hit with it. The weapon loses this enchantment if it leaves your grasp.

Is that 10/10 of bright/dim light a bit excessive for a secondary effect? Even if it was just 5/10...

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I would see that more as a feature than a bug, but I understand it goes against your design intentions, so no worries.


This is way TOO good IMO!!!

It combines the weapon-cantrips such as GFB, but lasts 1 minute so you don't have to cast it each turn like GFB.

It would also stack with divine smite, making it so in tier 4 you could do 6d8 damage every hit because of a cantrip with no concentration. You would rival the damage of a Paladin who must spend slots for that type of damage (although Paladin's get Extra Attack).

Damage wise, it is fine. That's 27+ Str/Dex damage on average. Toll the Dead deals 4d12+1d8 (30.5) to an injured target, keys only off Wisdom, and is ranged.

The issue is the duration, which allows for opportunity attacks, and for it to be poached by those with multiple attacks. It should simply be an attack action cantrip like GFB.

Better, but still feels too strong compared to something like Shillelagh.

That's because Shillelagh sucks past midgame outside of specific builds (which typically aren't even druids). It's simply not worth an action for a druid to bonk someone for d8+wis.

 

[aco175]

Does this stack with the 8th level cleric power where you already add 1d8 radiant damage?

I also feel like emitting light is moot if this become a 1 round power.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Does this stack with the 8th level cleric power where you already add 1d8 radiant damage?

I also feel like emitting light is moot if this become a 1 round power.

The light effect could linger for a minute or something. It's basically a ribbon.

 

[DND_Reborn]

What I find interesting about your suggestion is that it would look like this.

Blessed Weapon
transmutation cantrip

Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Self
Components: V, S, M (a sprinkle of holy water and a melee weapon)
Duration: 1 round

The melee weapon you are holding becomes infused with holy energy. The weapon sheds a bright light in a 10 foot radius and dim light for another 10 feet, and becomes magical, if it isn't already. The weapon loses this enchantment if it leaves your grasp.

As part of casting this spell, make a weapon attack, if that attack hits, the next attack against the target has advantage.

At 5th level, the weapon does an additional 1d8 radiant damage and increases to 2d8 at level 11 and 3d8 at level 17.

-

Please note my actual suggestion was just to grant advantage on the next attack, not include damage bumps at higher levels.

In essence, this is sort of combining True Strike with a weapon attack, but the advantage is for the next attack. Also, I didn't say this, but you should include "the next attack made against the target before the end of your next turn has advantage." But maybe the 1 round duration makes that unnecessary?

Which still allows for an at-will 6d8 attack every turn, which was your initial concern. So, does this feel more balanced to you?

No, it still isn't ideal, but at least now it requires your action each round and is considered Casting a Spell instead of taking the Attack action, so War Priest's can't use their bonus action in the same turn for another attack.

The problem is more GFB and BB don't have inherent boosts from features like Divine Strikes and their damage depends on certain riders. Blessed Weapon has no riders for the extra damage. Maybe if the next attack (which has advantage) hits, THEN that attack does extra damage?

So, what do you want this cantrip to do? So far you have:

1. Shed light
2. Make your attack magical
3. Increase weapon damage
4. Provide advantage on an attack

All of which is a bit much for a cantrip IMO. Most cantrips only do 1 thing, sometimes 2, but 3 is rare IIRC.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

The problem is more GFB and BB don't have inherent boosts from features like Divine Strikes and their damage depends on certain riders.

They effectively have boosts from other features though. War Magic, Battle Magic, Bladesong, etc.

It frankly needs Divine Strikes to match Toll the Dead and have a reason for taking it. Otherwise it's less damage, requires another stat, and is melee dependent. Kind of a big price to pay for pure flavor.

 

[DND_Reborn]

They effectively have boosts from other features though. War Magic, Battle Magic, Bladesong, etc.

Not in the same terms IMO. Others are restricted by either limited uses (e.g. Bladesong) or requiring the Attack action IIRC.

It frankly needs Divine Strikes to match Toll the Dead and have a reason for taking it. Otherwise it's less damage, requires another stat, and is melee dependent. Kind of a big price to pay for pure flavor.

Toll the Dead is one of the strongest (if not) damage cantrips IMO due to the d12 and using WIS saves instead of CON (which most creatures would do better with...). The potential 6d8+STR for Blessed Weapon equals the d12 version for Toll the Dead, but you don't always get the d12... So, I like the idea posted upthread about it doing a d4 (or maybe a d6?) instead of a d8. The d6 is probably fairer IMO.

Although it might get a bit fiddly, making it d8 (weapon) + 2d8 (Divine Strike) + 3d6 (Blessed Weapon at tier 4) average 24+STR mod. If you are a melee Cleric, odds are that would be +3 IME, would make it 27. This is the average of Toll the Dead doing d8 half the time and d12 the other half assuming a WIS 20. (4d8+5 avg. 23, 4d12+5 avg. 31; 23+31 = 54 / 2 = 27.)

Anyway, I am still waiting to see precisely what this cantrip is meant to do. It seems like the primary intent is to make a cleric's attacks magical with a melee weapon, but has since then gained additional damage as well...

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Not in the same terms IMO. Others are restricted by either limited uses (e.g. Bladesong) or requiring the Attack action IIRC.

Bladesong lets you GFB and attack once. So do the others. This essentially would be the same. Maybe tweak the language to be once per turn or something, but the intent is pretty clear. Its basically just to the point of "insert wording to make it do the thing how it's supposed to be done" stage heh. GFB but advantage on a the next attack instead of secondary target damage.

Toll the Dead is one of the strongest (if not) damage cantrips IMO due to the d12 and using WIS saves instead of CON (which most creatures would do better with...). The potential 6d8+STR for Blessed Weapon equals the d12 version for Toll the Dead, but you don't always get the d12... So, I like the idea posted upthread about it doing a d4 (or maybe a d6?) instead of a d8. The d6 is probably fairer IMO.

Although it might get a bit fiddly, making it d8 (weapon) + 2d8 (Divine Strike) + 3d6 (Blessed Weapon at tier 4) average 24+STR mod. If you are a melee Cleric, odds are that would be +3 IME, would make it 27. This is the average of Toll the Dead doing d8 half the time and d12 the other half assuming a WIS 20. (4d8+5 avg. 23, 4d12+5 avg. 31; 23+31 = 54 / 2 = 27.)

Anyway, I am still waiting to see precisely what this cantrip is meant to do. It seems like the primary intent is to make a cleric's attacks magical with a melee weapon, but has since then gained additional damage as well...

Well, genie is out of the bottle with Toll. You're also missing the extra d8 on Toll from Blessed Strikes. Toll also hits for d12 about as often as rogues get sneak attack (basically every time). Again, you're in melee and investing in another stat. You should come out on top from the baseline.

The intent seems to be to give the melee cleric a reason to swing a mace, when currently there is none. Magic weapon alone doesn't cut it, it's one of the reason Shillelagh doesn't live up to it's intended purpose. It also needs a scaling rider at 5+.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Again, you're in melee and investing in another stat.

If you are a "melee" Cleric IME, you are likely going to have a better STR than WIS and your spells become utility / support.

You should come out on top from the baseline, which is now Toll.

No, it is not the baseline. Unless all other cantrips are brought up to its level, it is clearly not the baseline, it is the superior exception.

Toll also hits for d12 about as often as rogues get sneak attack (basically every time).

YMMV, of course, but since most combats last 2-3 rounds, if you Toll twice the first is often the d8, which is done to lead you to the d12.

Ultimately, I wouldn't use it as it currently is, but if others feel it is balanced for their game--so be it.

 

[TwoSix]

I mean, it is only better than Divine Favor by level 5. Is that fine or should it always be worse than Divine Favor?

Cantrips generally match up with 1st level attack spells by Tier 3.