D&D (2024) Pie in the Sky 6E

[James Gasik]

New setting books with updates for what's been going on over the past few decades would be nice. If we are contractually obligated to play in the Forgotten Realms, about starting with Cormyr or Raven's Bluff instead of the Sword Coast?

More strictly DM-facing content, to help new and old DM's alike become better at their craft.

A definitive answer for whether D&D is low fantasy or high fantasy, and design that builds off of that, instead of trying to have it both ways.

And if D&D isn't low fantasy, bring back magic items! None of this "optional content" or "three attunements" nonsense! Actual guidelines for "by level X, characters could have Y items"!

I want my high level characters to have fantastic bling that gives them new powers and abilities! Rods of Lordly Might, Helms of Brilliance, and Rings of Regeneration for all!

 

[Bill Zebub]

Not to be flippant, but you play and see what happens.

It's tough to articulate because there aren't really a ton of system to compare it to, but I want a D&D where your farmboy doesn't get Extra Attack because he hit 5th level and is a fighter, he gets Extra Attack because he helped the son of a famous swordsmaster and the swordsmaster agrees to teach him his techniques.

Oh, sure, I love that. But...it doesn't feel like D&D and I don't think it would ever happen.

Of course, this is the "Pie in the Sky" thread, so I guess it's within bounds.

 

[overgeeked]

Not to be flippant, but you play and see what happens.

It's tough to articulate because there aren't really a ton of system to compare it to, but I want a D&D where your farmboy doesn't get Extra Attack because he hit 5th level and is a fighter, he gets Extra Attack because he helped the son of a famous swordsmaster and the swordsmaster agrees to teach him his techniques.

Based on your description, you'd absolutely love Index Card RPG. It's a d20 game that functions exactly this way. Everything, including spells, are treated as things you pick up from adventuring rather than intrinsic traits.

 

[payn]

And if D&D isn't low fantasy, bring back magic items! None of this "optional content" or "three attunements" nonsense! Actual guidelines for "by level X, characters could have Y items"!

PF2 playtest had Cha mod per magic items you could have running at a time. I loved it, the other playtesters clearly hated it

I want my high level characters to have fantastic bling that gives them new powers and abilities! Rods of Lordly Might, Helms of Brilliance, and Rings of Regeneration for all!

Im with you as long as we get rid of +x weapons and armor. I want cool magic items that do more than provide necessary number boosts.

 

[TwoSix]

I call this: Character progression vs Class Progression, in terms of features acquisition. You have a bunch of features when you start your career. The rest of on the features comes from the adventuring itself (magic items, boons, charms) or from developing proficiency (better skills, more uses of starting features etc)

Yea, I'm formalizing a lightweight 5e hack for my next game that pretty much works like that. 1st level, you get a race, a background, a 1d8 Hit Die, simple weapons, light armor, and 3 feats, and that's it. Everytime you level, you gain a Hit Die and another feat. (Proficiency bonus as normal) You can either pick a feat from the books, or you can work with the DM to come up with a feat-like ability. Every feat MUST be tied to something your character accomplished within the story.

Everything else the character gains must be an item or boon that is found or crafted within the story.

 

[TwoSix]

Based on your description, you'd absolutely love Index Card RPG. It's a d20 game that functions exactly this way. Everything, including spells, are treated as things you pick up from adventuring rather than intrinsic traits.

Yea, I've looked at a few other systems that run this way. Knave and Old School Stylish in the OSR space, for example, and Index Card RPG.

 

[Professor Murder]

Abandoning the existing schools of magic and coming up with say six clear schools.

 

[James Gasik]

PF2 playtest had Cha mod per magic items you could have running at a time. I loved it, the other playtesters clearly hated it

Im with you as long as we get rid of +x weapons and armor. I want cool magic items that do more than provide necessary number boosts.

I concur, there's not a lot of reason for numeric boosts. A few I'm ok with, like Bracers of Defense being equal to some kind of armor, or Gauntlets of Dexterity or Girdles of Giant Strength, but +1 magic swords can do die in a fire. I'd much rather see magic weapons with neat abilities, like the old Frost Brand or Flametongue.

 

[Vaalingrade]

An end to plain +X items has been one of my dreams since I first started DMing and felt shame giving one out instead of a magic item.

 

[Celebrim]

Im with you as long as we get rid of +x weapons and armor. I want cool magic items that do more than provide necessary number boosts.

Have you ever tried playing with "cool magic items"?

As much as I sympathize with the dislike for simple +x items that boost numbers and push bottom spell dispensers, if you move too far from that model the game becomes unplayable owing to information overload.

Complex magic items and especially those with numinous effects become a massive burden on play because of their situational effect on resolution. The less the player knows how the item works, the worse the problem gets. But it turns out that not fully understanding something is often a precondition for it being numinous and thus feeling 'magical', and you actually need the player to help with process resolution just to reduce your mental burden.

I tried running a game where everything had artifact like complexity without artifact like power, and it worked right up until when everyone started getting multiple magic items. Then it was too complex.

There are a lot of things as a GM I thought I wanted which turn out not to work - social combat systems, realistic languages, realistic coinage, magical feeling magic items, etc. Each has their own problem that makes the game worse that can't be overcome in pen and paper (or at all). You can do 'cool magic items' like Diablo II or Noita if you have a computer to run the math and keep track of whether the magic is working. With a computer you could even obfuscate the information about the item from the player so that they don't know why the craziness is happening. But it turns out that you can only have a couple such items in an entire campaign.

So you are stuck I think with trying to create flavor for what is at the bottom just +2 swords and push button spell dispensers.