D&D 5E What (if anything) do you find "wrong" with 5E?

[Micah Sweet]

I get that draw. Though, I'm far more interested in the particulars of the adventure, and my character's role in it, then seeing them go from zero to hero. I had this epiphany playing 5E a few years ago. The GM was running a WotC adventure path and, well both the GM and the material were really boring. In the past, with 3E/PF1 I'd pour myself into the chargen, magic item fishing, and leveling process. It was insulating against a lackluster campaign and boring GM. 5E doesn't really scratch that itch. So, I don't have a strong inclination of actually playing it.

It's like the difference between a movie and a TV show, I guess. I prefer the latter in general, as it allows for story and character development, and more importantly, gives you more time for worldbuilding (which is most important to me).

 

[Micah Sweet]

D&D is made out of narrativium. There's a reason Discworld is found in Appendix E of the PHB as "suggested reading".

Not my game. "It doesn't matter if it makes any sense, as long as the story's cool" grinds my gears something fierce. An attempt at causality has to be made if I'm going to invest at all.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Was just a question. If you feel harassed, I am sorry. But all I get from you is negative posts and slights against the designers or 5e. So I wanted to know if it was out of experience or not.
I mean, we had that in 4e, that people who did never play 4e crizmtizied it without actually playing. Who totally get it wrong what worked and what not. This still has an effect on 5e, as some things that worked well in 4e were changed (not necessarily for the better, to obfuscate that it came from 4e, like hit dice and healing surges).

Is that Vaalingrade? Say hi for me.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I didn't think having a book in the last decade mattered, if we were calling A Song of Ice and Fire "modern fantasy", lol.

Well, in terms of influence I think it helps. ASOIAF just happens to have a long reach, in part because of the show. There are probably a fair number of younger fantasy fans who have only heard of Eddings for example.

I'll give you the Eddings point (while I adore both series, and feel they are sufficiently unique enough to count as examples).

Codex Alera...there's a lot you can do with one element, and the fact that almost everyone has magic can't be denied.

Absolutely true--but if anything, that tends to work a bit against the D&D trope of separating of spellcasters from others.

Something else I didn't consider as an example, is official D&D novels- these tend to be fairly high magic in of themselves, don't they?

Well, as I said, once you get to fiction that is significantly influenced by D&D (and there's quite a bit these days that is), all bets are off here.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I have heard you talk about this level draw before and its really funny to me, because I find it to be a big detractor from the RPG experience. Though, I'm likely an outlier in that I prefer games like Traveller and PbtA style. When I do D&D, I go with like an E8 PF1 game. Though, it certainly is a factor. Along with D20 OGL doing D&D flavor everything for past few decades. It has set this expectation that D&D does it all, when it clearly does not.

This applied more to OD&D than any more modern version, but one of the things that drove me out of it back then was the slow-but-chunky nature of advancement. I was much more comfortable with a graduated advancement than that.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

CR should be abandoned. It can't work. There's no way to make every combination of 4 classes have the same strengths and weaknesses vs. various monsters of the same CR. Therefore monsters will punch higher, lower and equal to their CR against various different groups.

I'm not sure IF it can work, but it sure doesn't now (or in 3e).

I honestly think the whole system needs an overhaul but as it has been pointed out I am wrong and in the minority.

 

[niklinna]

I'm not sure IF it can work, but it sure doesn't now (or in 3e).

I honestly think the whole system needs an overhaul but as it has been pointed out I am wrong and in the minority.

Not within this thread, you aren't.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Well, in terms of influence I think it helps. ASOIAF just happens to have a long reach, in part because of the show

yeah... like comic multiverse is old school (like when my dad was a kid and I am old now) but to the modern audience it is something new do to movies.
aSoIaF gets that same "what's old is new"

 

[Thomas Shey]

Even in a thread about not liking things about 5e, you aren't allowed to not like 5e! Send him to Room 101!

I wasn't expecting a Mage reference...

 

[glass]

Second- they are very focused on what newbies like.

What I also said is 5e didn't do any of the fantasy tropes that new players like well at all.

Is there any reason, at all, to suppose that what "newbies like" is in any way consistent. Rather than varying dramatically, just like what veterans want is all over the map.

No supernatural warrior class

What's the Paladin, chopped liver?

You do not add that 2 to non proficient skills in 5e either.but that is confusing the issue.

No, it is not confusing the issue; it is the issue. An untrained character in 4e adds half their level. Dividing that by two would imply that a non-proficient character would add level over four, but they add nothing. Level/4 != 0, and therefore it is not true that 5e maths is 4e maths divided by two. QED.

WoT def is low fantasy. While yes it has dragons (of the non talking kind) and undead and a few other magical creatures etc, it doesn't have roving wizards throwing spells. The magic shown is more ritualistic, which falls right into the low fantasy tier. Not to mention 99% of the population is human. No Orcs or Goblins, or Elves or Gnomes etc etc etc

Wait, what? There may not be elves or orcs, but there are ogier and shadowspawn. Magic is not (universally) ritualistic; weaves can be cast in seconds and can be extremely powerful, allowing the caster to obliterate enemies, physically enter dreams, and even have effects backwards through time. And most importantly, it culminates with a battle outside of reality (kinda) between the chief protagonist and the actual god of evil.. WoT is plenty high fantasy. EDIT: Wheel of Time is plenty high fantasy. World of Tiers may well not be (never heard of it). Sorry for the misunderstanding!