D&D General Reminder: Spellfire can come out of any body part…
- Thread starter DarkCrisis
- Start date
Alzrius
The EN World kitten
I'm on the record as not being a fan of this book, but I'll admit that I'd forgotten about that scene completely. In fact, what I most remember about it now is a friend of mine mentioning it, and my thinking that he had to be making it up...but no, there it was.
"As I have often said, I am a biological determinist, and there is no question that male and female brains are different. It is apparent to me that by and large females do not derive the same inner satisfaction from playing games as a hobby that males do. It isn't that females can't play games well, it is just that it isn't a compelling activity to them as is the case for males."
Gary Gygax
TSR - Q&A with Gary Gygax
This is the multi-year Q&A sessions held by D&D co-creator Gary Gygax here at EN World, beginning in 2002 and running up until his sad pasing in 2008. Gary's username in the thread below is Col_Pladoh, and his first post in this long thread is Post #39.
www.enworld.org
"A number of the chaps with families are bound to bring them next year so that thay can enjoy the charms of Lake Geneva, a true tourist trap with plenty to amuse women and children not enthralled by the lure of gaming."
Gary Gygax
TSR - Q&A with Gary Gygax
This is the multi-year Q&A sessions held by D&D co-creator Gary Gygax here at EN World, beginning in 2002 and running up until his sad pasing in 2008. Gary's username in the thread below is Col_Pladoh, and his first post in this long thread is Post #39.
www.enworld.org
"20 years? Way to short a period. The fantasy and SF pulp zines in the 1940s were rife with scantily clad women. Frazetta and Boris became famous for such work.
Now that's not politically correct. Tough
It still is fun, and it sells."Gary Gygax
For everyone who piles on Avalanche for their covers, please look
King Stannis, I'm not trying to start a flame war. I just take it very personally when someone implies that I'm a hypocrite. I've tried to live a life free of hypocrisy, so I'm a bit touchy about such loose accusations. However, it is not hypocrisy to be able to put an issue in context...
www.enworld.org
"Just so. The only limit I placed on female PCS was no Str above 18. In actual history female participation in what would be considered adventuring was virtually nil. i am always amused when history programs on the tube attempt Political Corectness by featuring the only examples of female duelists, pirates, warriors, etc. They represent less than one percent of the whole being considered, and featuring one-armed men in the same roles would be at least as meaningful historically. Frankly, not only did society generally prevent such participation, but I believe most women were generally not the least interested in engaging in such dangerous and questionable activities."
Gary Gygax
TSR - Q&A with Gary Gygax
This is the multi-year Q&A sessions held by D&D co-creator Gary Gygax here at EN World, beginning in 2002 and running up until his sad pasing in 2008. Gary's username in the thread below is Col_Pladoh, and his first post in this long thread is Post #39.
www.enworld.org
I can't stress enough that he said this stuff -here-. On ENWorld. Before it became against policy to say stuff like this.
Maybe he didn't walk around lamenting that women weren't all Gor for him or treated women as stray dogs to be kicked...
But this is the Gygax... The person chiefly credited with creating our hobby. Throwing out "Females" with the same sort of derogation as you might here on incel forums.
And it really feels like he'd misgender me in order to maintain his "Biological Determinism". And that -sucks-.
Argyle King
Legend
"As I have often said, I am a biological determinist, and there is no question that male and female brains are different. It is apparent to me that by and large females do not derive the same inner satisfaction from playing games as a hobby that males do. It isn't that females can't play games well, it is just that it isn't a compelling activity to them as is the case for males."
Gary Gygax
TSR - Q&A with Gary Gygax
This is the multi-year Q&A sessions held by D&D co-creator Gary Gygax here at EN World, beginning in 2002 and running up until his sad pasing in 2008. Gary's username in the thread below is Col_Pladoh, and his first post in this long thread is Post #39.
"A number of the chaps with families are bound to bring them next year so that thay can enjoy the charms of Lake Geneva, a true tourist trap with plenty to amuse women and children not enthralled by the lure of gaming."
Gary Gygax
TSR - Q&A with Gary Gygax
This is the multi-year Q&A sessions held by D&D co-creator Gary Gygax here at EN World, beginning in 2002 and running up until his sad pasing in 2008. Gary's username in the thread below is Col_Pladoh, and his first post in this long thread is Post #39.
"20 years? Way to short a period. The fantasy and SF pulp zines in the 1940s were rife with scantily clad women. Frazetta and Boris became famous for such work.
Now that's not politically correct. Tough
Gary Gygax
For everyone who piles on Avalanche for their covers, please look
King Stannis, I'm not trying to start a flame war. I just take it very personally when someone implies that I'm a hypocrite. I've tried to live a life free of hypocrisy, so I'm a bit touchy about such loose accusations. However, it is not hypocrisy to be able to put an issue in context...
"Just so. The only limit I placed on female PCS was no Str above 18. In actual history female participation in what would be considered adventuring was virtually nil. i am always amused when history programs on the tube attempt Political Corectness by featuring the only examples of female duelists, pirates, warriors, etc. They represent less than one percent of the whole being considered, and featuring one-armed men in the same roles would be at least as meaningful historically. Frankly, not only did society generally prevent such participation, but I believe most women were generally not the least interested in engaging in such dangerous and questionable activities."
Gary Gygax
TSR - Q&A with Gary Gygax
This is the multi-year Q&A sessions held by D&D co-creator Gary Gygax here at EN World, beginning in 2002 and running up until his sad pasing in 2008. Gary's username in the thread below is Col_Pladoh, and his first post in this long thread is Post #39.
I can't stress enough that he said this stuff -here-. On ENWorld. Before it became against policy to say stuff like this.
Maybe he didn't walk around lamenting that women weren't all Gor for him or treated women as stray dogs to be kicked...
But this is the Gygax... The person chiefly credited with creating our hobby. Throwing out "Females" with the same sort of derogation as you might here on incel forums.
And it really feels like he'd misgender me in order to maintain his "Biological Determinism". And that -sucks-.
I'm not fully understanding how Ed Greenwood's laser bewbz are synonymous with Gygax's opinions on gendered brains.
Blue Orange
Gone to Texas
All I can find on Greenwood (not Gygax) on this particular issue is him defending the inclusion of a trans character in Baldur's Gate:
www.mandatory.com
And (while this is a separate issue) I think he's had plenty of bi and poly characters, sometimes under the radar.
Gygax may have been responsible in large part for many of the issues with the hobby as you say, but Greenwood was born a full 20 years after Gygax and is a completely different person.
Forgotten Realms Creator Ed Greenwood is "Saddened" by Baldur's Gate Controversy
Ed Greenwood, the designer of the Dungeons & Dragons setting the Forgotten Realms, has weighed in on the controversy surrounding Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear's trans character.
www.mandatory.com
And (while this is a separate issue) I think he's had plenty of bi and poly characters, sometimes under the radar.
Gygax may have been responsible in large part for many of the issues with the hobby as you say, but Greenwood was born a full 20 years after Gygax and is a completely different person.
Frazetta and Boris lamentation ties into that. The oversexualization and objectification of women as a thing that was really common in early D&D (and hasn't entirely faded out) didn't appear out of nowhere. The guys in charge put it there.
The above said... I am glad you brought that to my attention, Blue. I'd only really seen Ed's pervy takes on things, really. So it's nice to know that he pushed back on that controversy!All I can find on Greenwood (not Gygax) on this particular issue is him defending the inclusion of a trans character in Baldur's Gate:
Forgotten Realms Creator Ed Greenwood is "Saddened" by Baldur's Gate Controversy
Ed Greenwood, the designer of the Dungeons & Dragons setting the Forgotten Realms, has weighed in on the controversy surrounding Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear's trans character.
And (while this is a separate issue) I think he's had plenty of bi and poly characters, sometimes under the radar.
Gygax may have been responsible in large part for many of the issues with the hobby as you say, but Greenwood was born a full 20 years after Gygax and is a completely different person.
That* was my thought when I started reading this thread- “what if the protagonist had been a young man?”
* and Larry Niven’s “Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex” short story…
I never envisioned the scene having the spellfire coming from her breasts specifically, just from the center of her chest. But Greenwood is well known for being a bit of a perv, something even his wife used to chuckle about, and he has a "type" of woman he likes to write into many of his novels. Powerful, buxom, wild, sexually liberated, etc. Like a Heavy Metal magazine lady.
Mad_Jack
Legend
Okay, just playing devil's advocate here, but traditionally, the phrase "bared breast" is not a sexist reference to female breasts, but historically meant that anyone had pulled aside their armor or clothing for any reason to reveal their chest.
Think of any scene in a movie or book where someone points a sword at another person, threatening to kill them, and the other person simply pulls open their shirt to expose their heart and says, "Do it."
Self-admitted "perv"or not, I highly doubt that Mr. Greenwood was choosing that particular moment in the fight to suddenly have his main character giggle, lift her shirt and go, "Look! Boob missiles!" rather than the character realizing that raw magic was pouring out of her flesh wherever it was exposed and simply opening her tunic to expose more of it.
Archaically, the word "breast" meant any reference to the chest area, whether male or female, human or animal.
But in modern society, no one uses the word breast in that way anymore unless buying poultry at the grocery store, and it has come to largely be thought of only as a reference to female genitalia. Which is why if the character had been male no one would have thought twice about it, realizing that the phrase was being used in the traditional sense, and we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
