Dragonlance Dragonlance Creators Reveal Why There Are No Orcs On Krynn

Talking to the Dragonlance Nexus, Dragonlance creators Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman revealed why the world of Krynn features no orcs -- in short, because they didn't want to copy Tolkien, and orcs were very much a 'Middle Earth' thing.

Weis told Trampas Whiteman that "Orcs were also viewed as very Middle Earth. We wanted something different." Hickman added that it was draconians which made Krynn stand out. Read more at the link below!

Why are there no Orcs in Krynn? Weis and Hickman give us the answer! – Dragonlance Nexus

dragonlancenexus.com

 

[GMforPowergamers]

There's no such existing lore that = orcs. You're inventing again, which is fine, but the creator's reasoning for no orcs still stands after all this time.

that is the theme of orc andhalf orc

 

[Remathilis]

Minotaur
Also, back in the day there weren't any tiefling or dragonborn options, and that is before we get to the classes.

Why? You prefer that particular number of mechanical choices? What is magical about that number?

Well, my take is whatever the current PHB has available is the minimum. And yes, that number has increased every edition. The current PHB offers 9 races and 12 classes, so that's about what any given setting should offer. You can always go higher, of course.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

So they stifle fun in use if at many tables if the base ruleset isn't permissive. No reason for 2 Con races and 2 Dex races but no Wis or Str races if gameplay is an important driving factor, the game is heavily attributed to ability scores, and the game going for mass appeal.

Post Tasha's ASIs are irrelevant. You choose your race for the lore, the ASIs can be whatever you like.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

The closest one to an official statement by WotC about the canon is: "we try to keep the coherence but the main goal is the creative flexibility in your own tabletop".

Maybe there aren't orcs but tareks from Athas, who discovered a planar portal accidentally.

 

[Maxperson]

that is the theme of orc andhalf orc

No. That's the theme you are inventing and calling orc and half-orc, when it's nowhere close. The gods did not invent the tribesman you are using, they invented humans, some of whom became those tribesman. As a result, you are literally replacing every human on the planet with orcs. Unless you're suggesting that without any rhyme, reason or lore humans just spontaneously become orcs if they form tribes.

You need to show existing lore that explicitly forms orcs like Tolkien did.

 

[Dragonhelm]

Like for clarity to those not actually familiar with DL: it's a post apocalypses war. Also, those minotaurs they keep mentioning as replacements for orcs? They're sailors and pirates. How is that something not getting mentioned in this five-thread running battle? Pirate. Minotaurs. We could have been talking about that that last three months instead of excluding player species and facial hair that went out of fashion before I was born (and I am old).

Minotaurs are not replacements for orcs. Draconians fill that role.

Minotaurs in Krynn are a race that have been enslaved multiple times by dwarves and Istar. The Cataclysm was a blessing for them, because it separated their island homelands of Mithas and Kothas from the mainland. They had freedom, and they would never be slaves again.

They became mariners and yes, pirates. They're also honor-bound warriors. They evoke a similar

I highly recommend reading the various minotaur books by Richard A. Knaak, who brought them to life. Kaz the Minotaur is a good start.

I also recommend Races of Ansalon by Margaret Weis Productions. Yours truly wrote the minotaur chapter there.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Minotaurs are not replacements for orcs. Draconians fill that role.

People are telling folks to play minotaurs instead of orcs. Because we're pretending the issue is specifically orcs and orcs weren't a placeholder for playing something you want to play that's not 'canon' in the farcical running battle.

 

[Dausuul]

If we want to defy Tolkien, how about getting rid of elves and finally letting rogues eat rangers and take their stuff instead of the guys we only just started doing interesting things with?

Choosing not to imitate Tolkien isn't "defying" him. It's just... not imitating him.

I'd be quite happy to see more settings without any of orcs, elves, dwarves, halflings, or the dozen other Tolkienisms that are taken for granted in D&D. As for rangers, that's a bit of a different concern (classes are not a defined "in-fiction" element the way races are), but I wouldn't be opposed to streamlining the class list a bit, and rangers would be one of the first to go if that happened.

That just shows terrible creativity and lack of worldbuilding because should said player/PC looks into the reasons why, then the DM has no choice but to answer.

The answer is the same as if the player asked why the setting does not contain dinosaurs, black holes, Jane Austen, the Battle of Waterloo, social media, or Daleks: "Because we didn't put those things in this setting." The absence of an element does not have to be justified--it's the presence of that element that requires justification.

If the lore is isolated to just a region and a DM handwaves other worlds/planes/gods etc., that's different. But if the established lore is everything is connected, as it originally was in 2E, it's not a bad thing to please fans by delving into deeper lore of the bigger questions.

The decision to make everything connected was one of 2E's worse ideas. A DM who wants to run a game in the Dragonlance setting should not also be shackled to the Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Dark Sun, and Planescape. Each setting should be free to stand on its own.

Anyhow, Dragonlance was published five years before Spelljammer. It's a 1E setting; there was no assumption of "everything's connected" when it was made.

 

[Kai Lord]

Anyhow, Dragonlance was published five years before Spelljammer. It's a 1E setting; there was no assumption of "everything's connected" when it was made.

Preach it brother!

 

[Dragonhelm]

Folks, I am seeing a lot of circular arguments here, and it just isn't productive.

My goal with talking to Weis and Hickman was to set the record straight so that folks could see where they came from.

So here's my take...If orcs and half-orcs are a must in your game, then try to find a way to add them in that makes them fit organically.

Reskinning things in 5e is easy. I had one time in a one-shot where a player came with a half-orc. I told him about the lack of orcs in Krynn, but said that we could just call the character a half-ogre. He was fine with that.

There's always the excuse of saying he's from a far-off continent, or that he was blessed/cursed by a god and transformed. The possibilities are endless.

Ask yourselves how you can be a helper and how you can make a player's experience as fun as it can be.